RE: Hilltop - 10

I'm really jealous of the gains you guys have been getting.
I'm in the awkward position of trying to decide whether or not to pull the trigger for both my bike and my wife's S1000R (which is horrible at slow speed because of the full Akro system).

The reason for the hesitation is because both bikes are approaching 4 years of age with at least 10,000 miles put on them a year, and I'm not sure if we want to lay out that kind of cash if we'll be considering new bikes in the next year or so.

Plus, it's a fairly major schlep to get up there...

In the meantime, I'm trying the 'redline tuning' method suggested earlier. I don't know if it works, but it's fun.

I had an email reply from Rob at Hilltop yesterday that made my day.

Not everyone understands the function of the narrow band Lambda sensors on the bike. There's an awful lot of dross talked about what they do. Cars are often/usually different, having wide band sensors.

The Lambda O2 sensors do one thing. In a rev band and other conditions ascribed by the ECU puts the fuel injection into 'closed loop mode'. Now, in open loop mode the fuelling is controlled from look up tables. These tables are influenced by a number of sensors, the Lambda sensors not being one (or even two). That's not their function.

In closed loop mode the fuelling is switched around a set point stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1 using the output of the Lambda sensors as the 'switch'. This is the 'test condition' used to achieve the necessary emissions standards. This switching combined with the relative light weight of the bike can lead to a 'stutter' at certain revs that is worse the lower the gear. Some bikes are awful and on others it's barely noticeable. I do notice it on the RS although I've owned bikes far worse.

I was louth to go all that way to get my open loop fuelling sorted out if the closed loop situation remained.

From Rob.....

Our software actually overrides the "closed loop" control of the engine. What it does instead is to run alongside the bikes original software and then interrupt when certain conditions are met. The lambda sensors are not used as o2 sensors but are re-purposed as exhaust gas temperature sensors which is what our software looks at to get a more accurate reading of the fuelling of the motorbike.

I'm definitely planning a visit now.

Edited to add, booked in midday Thursday.

Peter

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #137

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I had an email reply from Rob at Hilltop yesterday that made my day.

Not everyone understands the function of the narrow band Lambda sensors on the bike. There's an awful lot of dross talked about what they do. Cars are often/usually different, having wide band sensors.

The Lambda O2 sensors do one thing. In a rev band and other conditions ascribed by the ECU puts the fuel injection into 'closed loop mode'. Now, in open loop mode the fuelling is controlled from look up tables. These tables are influenced by a number of sensors, the Lambda sensors not being one (or even two). That's not their function.

In closed loop mode the fuelling is switched around a set point stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1 using the output of the Lambda sensors as the 'switch'. This is the 'test condition' used to achieve the necessary emissions standards. This switching combined with the relative light weight of the bike can lead to a 'stutter' at certain revs that is worse the lower the gear. Some bikes are awful and on others it's barely noticeable. I do notice it on the RS although I've owned bikes far worse.

I was louth to go all that way to get my open loop fuelling sorted out if the closed loop situation remained.

From Rob.....

Our software actually overrides the "closed loop" control of the engine. What it does instead is to run alongside the bikes original software and then interrupt when certain conditions are met. The lambda sensors are not used as o2 sensors but are re-purposed as exhaust gas temperature sensors which is what our software looks at to get a more accurate reading of the fuelling of the motorbike.

I'm definitely planning a visit now.

Edited to add, booked in midday Thursday.

Peter

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I've not long got in from a 380 mile round trip to Hinkley. I went down the easy way, M6/Toll and A5 and arrived 1 1/2 hours early. As I was just getting the bench tune they fitted me in straight away. Nice people! I also chatted to a couple of happy repeat customers while I was there and saw them suffer while their brand new bikes (KTM 1290 Superduke GT and R1250GS) were getting abused

It took about an hour and I was asked to take it for a spin before handing over my hard earned shrapnel. It's difficult to tell from a quick blat in a 30 and 40mph limit but it did seem to pick up well and it also seemed smoother.

The trip back was an epic. A couple of hundred miles, up to Matlock for a late lunch and then Snake Pass before getting onto the motorway system around Manchester to home. I got caught in a torrential downpour on the pass and couldn't work out why my GPS fast route home was taking me through every town in Lancashire! I then realised that I had motorways down as an avoidance - doh!

So how is it? Is it all a con?

In terms of a seat of the pants dyno and given that I never ride my bike on the limit of the engine's performance it's difficult to judge. If I go out and 'give it beans' it WILL feel fast and I WILL be impressed. So, a bit like when I road tested the 1250 I mainly rode the bike 'normally' (a whole range of stuff but progressive on the open road and on the Motorway) and noted what was what.

In 30, 40 and 50mph limits I have to be a good boy pretty much, due to my voluntary work with the IAM. I also happen to think it's socially responsible. NSL's not so much . At 30mph I found 2nd gear too low as the bike stutters and hunts and 3rd gear was a little high and lumpy. Now, both are great. So the closed loop stutter has gone! I'd have paid £100 for that alone . At the other end of things the bike is also more tractable in higher gears. Win, win!

Top gear roll on, 4-5,000 rpm. Wow! The best way to describe it is that it now feels like a 5th gear roll on. This is very real and indicative of the level of improvement.

The final noticeable change, if I reset my average fuel consumption it bottoms out at 54mpg, always, religiously. Now It's levelled out at 59mpg. I was knocking on a bit today especially on the motorway. I also tackled a Gixer 6 on Snake Pass and won..., mind it was pretty shitty weather

So, given all the benefits advertised by Geoff, i.e. self tuning, transparent, not affected by dealer upgrades etc I am very pleased indeed. My bike is great, now it's significantly better.

It was also interesting chatting to Geoff about his background and getting some idea of what he has achieved with his 'magic'.

Peter

Interesting comment regarding top gear roll-on. This is what I noticed the difference to be between the non Euro 4 bikes and Euro 4. I used a 2016 demonstrator on the A50 for a test ride and remember being impressed with the TGRO......so much so that it made my decision to buy an RS. The TGRO on my 2017 EU4 RS does not feel as strong as the 2016 demo bike......still good....but not outstanding.

Think I will also pay Hilltop a visit. Be rude not to as they are about 12 miles form me.

It sure would be nice to find this particular "magic" stateside. I'm assuming the majority of you just had Hilltop's base mapping installed without dyno tweaking? If so, I would be tempted to box up the ECU for a round trip (If I weren't so paranoid about it somehow being lost or damaged by the trip) Anything comparable here? Apologies if this has been answered previously.

Zitat von duccrazydave im Beitrag #141

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It sure would be nice to find this particular "magic" stateside. I'm assuming the majority of you just had Hilltop's base mapping installed without dyno tweaking? If so, I would be tempted to box up the ECU for a round trip (If I weren't so paranoid about it somehow being lost or damaged by the trip) Anything comparable here? Apologies if this has been answered previously.

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Stateside you might want to check with Max BMW. I know they offer ECU programming service, but I don’t know what the details are. Generally speaking, Max knows what’s what around the boxer motor, but do your own research on this.

A follow up after riding the bike 'normally' today on the back roads around Sedbergh and Kirkby Lonsdale plus a slow riding manoeuvrability event. I think the 1250 can sod off. This bikes a keeper

Hi all,

Has anyone had any fuelling issues since the remap.

Last couple of outings I've noticed a bit of a "lag" between getting on the gas and the bike responding and obviously the lower the gear the more noticeable, also when cruising at a steady speed the bike feels as if it's hunting a bit as in can decide whether to feed in a bit more fuel or take some off etc, but isn't noticeable on cruise control.

Will give Hilltop a call later to see what they say but it will be going in for it's 6K service soon so will get them to look at it as well.

I'm running a Power Commander V on my 2015 and I've noticed recently that there can be a slight miss when blipping for a down shift. Nothing major, just a lack of response every now and then. The bike still accelerates strongly and pulls cleanly. I wonder if the ECU starts to learn and adapt, although my O2 sensors have been dumped so I can't think where it would be getting its data from.

Zitat von Fugly im Beitrag #145

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Hi all,

Has anyone had any fuelling issues since the remap.

Last couple of outings I've noticed a bit of a "lag" between getting on the gas and the bike responding and obviously the lower the gear the more noticeable, also when cruising at a steady speed the bike feels as if it's hunting a bit as in can decide whether to feed in a bit more fuel or take some off etc, but isn't noticeable on cruise control.

Will give Hilltop a call later to see what they say but it will be going in for it's 6K service soon so will get them to look at it as well.

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No problems here,mine used to hunt before the treatment but been fine since.

Spoke with Geoff at Hilltop, he didn't want to guess but said it was probably the throttle position sensor needing calibrating and said to bring it in and he will take a look and sort it so need to find a free day to do that.

Will let you know what if anything he finds, other than this it rides fine

Zitat von Bravo im Beitrag #148

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No problems here,mine used to hunt before the treatment but been fine since.

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