RE: Hilltop Group Booking - 2

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #16

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #13

---

The spat between Treetop Tuning and Hilltop is really direct and personal now. Treetop are directly saying that Hilltop's owner is a fraud and that the Hilltop tune is non-existent. I am not an engineer of any type so done understand the technical elements of the debate ( e.g. tune at chipset level) but I do understand that this is no small difference of opinion - its a complete allegation of dishonesty. One part of me says that surely someone would not make such accusations ( and risk being sued) if they did not have evidence , but the other part of me says 'this is the internet anything's possible'

Anyone here got views ?

---

Hilltop would find it difficult to sue as they would have to disclose how they have hacked the makers' software. This could lead to BMW & other makers getting litigious and also the regulatory authorities if the vehicles are no longer compliant with legislation. On the other hand, if Hilltop are selling snake oil then then they would be exposed in court.

As it is, there are hundreds of satisfied boxer owners saying the Hilltop tunign works, if you read UKGSer. They can't all be victims of the placebo effect surely?

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #17

---

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #16

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #13

---

The spat between Treetop Tuning and Hilltop is really direct and personal now. Treetop are directly saying that Hilltop's owner is a fraud and that the Hilltop tune is non-existent. I am not an engineer of any type so done understand the technical elements of the debate ( e.g. tune at chipset level) but I do understand that this is no small difference of opinion - its a complete allegation of dishonesty. One part of me says that surely someone would not make such accusations ( and risk being sued) if they did not have evidence , but the other part of me says 'this is the internet anything's possible'

Anyone here got views ?

---

Hilltop would find it difficult to sue as they would have to disclose how they have hacked the makers' software. This could lead to BMW & other makers getting litigious and also the regulatory authorities if the vehicles are no longer compliant with legislation. On the other hand, if Hilltop are selling snake oil then then they would be exposed in court.

As it is, there are hundreds of satisfied boxer owners saying the Hilltop tunign works, if you read UKGSer. They can't all be victims of the placebo effect surely?

---

You would think not, the argument from TT is that it's a temporary 'remap' and that because the bikes are self learning they relearn the original settings via the 02 sensors ( if I have understood anything at all).
I am sort of fascinated as there are so many satisfied customers

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #13

---

The spat between Treetop Tuning and Hilltop is really direct and personal now. Treetop are directly saying that Hilltop's owner is a fraud and that the Hilltop tune is non-existent. I am not an engineer of any type so done understand the technical elements of the debate ( e.g. tune at chipset level) but I do understand that this is no small difference of opinion - its a complete allegation of dishonesty. One part of me says that surely someone would not make such accusations ( and risk being sued) if they did not have evidence , but the other part of me says 'this is the internet anything's possible'

Anyone here got views ?

---

Zitat von Bravo im Beitrag #18

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #17

---

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #16

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #13

---

The spat between Treetop Tuning and Hilltop is really direct and personal now. Treetop are directly saying that Hilltop's owner is a fraud and that the Hilltop tune is non-existent. I am not an engineer of any type so done understand the technical elements of the debate ( e.g. tune at chipset level) but I do understand that this is no small difference of opinion - its a complete allegation of dishonesty. One part of me says that surely someone would not make such accusations ( and risk being sued) if they did not have evidence , but the other part of me says 'this is the internet anything's possible'

Anyone here got views ?

---

Hilltop would find it difficult to sue as they would have to disclose how they have hacked the makers' software. This could lead to BMW & other makers getting litigious and also the regulatory authorities if the vehicles are no longer compliant with legislation. On the other hand, if Hilltop are selling snake oil then then they would be exposed in court.

As it is, there are hundreds of satisfied boxer owners saying the Hilltop tunign works, if you read UKGSer. They can't all be victims of the placebo effect surely?

---

You would think not, the argument from TT is that it's a temporary 'remap' and that because the bikes are self learning they relearn the original settings via the 02 sensors ( if I have understood anything at all).
I am sort of fascinated as there are so many satisfied customers

---

Is your wife still satisfied Andy? With her bike I mean.

---

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #17

---

You would think not, the argument from TT is that it's a temporary 'remap' and that because the bikes are self learning they relearn the original settings via the 02 sensors ( if I have understood anything at all).
I am sort of fascinated as there are so many satisfied customers

---

Hilltop have done the work on Michael Rutter's exotic Honda RCV and they work for numerous other race teams. Somebody may well be able to con us road users, but I don't think they could con race teams for very long without being exposed.

That argument only holds up if the race teams are buying the same product as the road users. They aren't as most race classes use control ECUs.

Zitat von Tony101 im Beitrag #22

---

Hilltop have done the work on Michael Rutter's exotic Honda RCV and they work for numerous other race teams. Somebody may well be able to con us road users, but I don't think they could con race teams for very long without being exposed.

---

Noob question. From my understanding (wikipedia!), engine tuning is a balance between power output, fuel economy and engine durability. To get more power, aren't you just delivering more fuel at certain points along the way? The argument for tuning is that you get more but there is no downside which has always seem so unlikely to me. Thanks for your insights!

Zitat von andygriff im Beitrag #24

---

Zitat von Tony101 im Beitrag #22

---

Hilltop have done the work on Michael Rutter's exotic Honda RCV and they work for numerous other race teams. Somebody may well be able to con us road users, but I don't think they could con race teams for very long without being exposed.

---

Definitely a good reference point. Like I said I am not doubting Hilltop - just somewhat fascinated by the vitriol of the debate

---

Zitat von MilesAway im Beitrag #25

---

Noob question. From my understanding (wikipedia!), engine tuning is a balance between power output, fuel economy and engine durability. To get more power, aren't you just delivering more fuel at certain points along the way? The argument for tuning is that you get more but there is no downside which has always seem so unlikely to me. Thanks for your insights!

---

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #27

---

Zitat von MilesAway im Beitrag #25

---

Noob question. From my understanding (wikipedia!), engine tuning is a balance between power output, fuel economy and engine durability. To get more power, aren't you just delivering more fuel at certain points along the way? The argument for tuning is that you get more but there is no downside which has always seem so unlikely to me. Thanks for your insights!

---

Another factor is emissions and any engine is a compromise. Tuning is changing the compromise from meeting the particular emissions tests to all round performance. This needn't detract from durability or fuel economy.

---

Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #23

---

That argument only holds up if the race teams are buying the same product as the road users. They aren't as most race classes use control ECUs.

---

Zitat von MilesAway im Beitrag #28

---

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #27

---

Zitat von MilesAway im Beitrag #25

---

Noob question. From my understanding (wikipedia!), engine tuning is a balance between power output, fuel economy and engine durability. To get more power, aren't you just delivering more fuel at certain points along the way? The argument for tuning is that you get more but there is no downside which has always seem so unlikely to me. Thanks for your insights!

---

Another factor is emissions and any engine is a compromise. Tuning is changing the compromise from meeting the particular emissions tests to all round performance. This needn't detract from durability or fuel economy.

---

Good point - so is that the unsaid Hilltop compromise (to use them as an example)? Better performance in exchange for a less good emissions profile?

---