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Post break-in service oil level (high)
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Fri May 12, 2023 11:56 pm (Last edited: Fri May 12, 2023 11:59 pm)
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The 620-mile service for my KTM 390 Duke at the dealer in San Francisco set me back $650! After that experience I never went back to the KTM dealer. I now service the bike myself and if I need parts I buy them via the internet. Fortunately, the KTM's owner's manual is very complete. A couple of hundred pages that provides detailed illustrated instructions on how to perform most services, other than a valve lash inspection. Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2020 KTM 390 Duke; 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500; 2009 BMW F650GS; 2016 BMW R1200RS; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh |
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8 Then the fault is not changing the filter. An old filter retains a quantity of oil which might put the total above spec. Even (if not especially) at the break in service, the filter should be changed.
I’m a Notary Public. RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!
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Sat May 13, 2023 1:33 pm (Last edited: Sat May 13, 2023 1:33 pm)
Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #18Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8Then the fault is not changing the filter. An old filter retains a quantity of oil which might put the total above spec. Or the oil has been drained with a completely cold engine and/or not left long enough for the oil to completely drain? KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS |
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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #18Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8 At least it's easy to see if the filter was changed on the first service. The filter installed at the factory looks different.
Lee
2022 R1250RS White Sport Iowa, USA |
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Zitat von Lee im Beitrag #20Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #18Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8 Pretty sure they changed the filter. It was on the invoice as a parts item. If they charged for it but didn't change it...that's fraud. Seems unlikely a dealer would risk that for a small oil filter profit. How does the factory filter differ? |
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #21 It is my experience that the factory filter has indentations and needs a special tool to remove. Any filter you buy and the one that SHOULD be installed after has flats that the tool fits onto. Frank
2023 R1250RS
2003 R1100S Boxer Cup Replika #6/200 1985 K100/1100RS- 329,000 mi. 37 yrs. 2017 R1200RS- 51,000 mi, 5 yrs, (gone) 2016 R1200RS- 28,322 mi. 18 mo. (gone) 2011 R1200RT- 30,000 mi. 2 yr. (gone) 2005 R1200ST- 58,000 mi. 8 yr. 3rd deer killed it. 1999 R1100S- 15,000 mi. 2 yr. (gone) 1996 Ducati 900SS/SP- 89,000 mi. 12 yr. (gone) 500,000+ BMW miles |
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Zitat von Duckbubbles im Beitrag #22Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #21 Indentations on factory filter? What do they look like and where are they? The filter on the invoice has a part number of T114A0 and it says "Mahle" on it, made in Austria. But as I said before, not replacing the filter (a $25 item) would be pretty bad, as any profit from $25 is outweighed by the risk. |
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Zitat von Freddyfruitbat im Beitrag #19Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #18Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8Then the fault is not changing the filter. An old filter retains a quantity of oil which might put the total above spec. Seems most likely explanation. Bike dropped off in afternoon day before service. Bike sat overnight, then got serviced. Usually this tech is good about oil level, but may have been too busy to pay attention to such detail this time. |
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Sat May 13, 2023 6:02 pm (Last edited: Sat May 13, 2023 6:05 pm)
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My OCD got the better of me this morning so I removed the valve covers to check valve clearances and remove a little oil. All clearances were spot on (as I expected). Put it all back together and ran the engine on the centerstand and sidestand for a few minutes before shutting it off and putting it back on the centerstand. 15 minutes later the oil level is at the top of the circle- acceptable. The techs just throw four liters in with the filter and call it a day. I add 3.5 at an oil and filter change and adjust if need be, usually not. My experience is with the 1200 but I believe the 1250 will end up the same. 2023 R1250RS |
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Sat May 13, 2023 8:21 pm (Last edited: Sat May 13, 2023 8:24 pm)
Zitat von Freddyfruitbat im Beitrag #19 Well… (1) I stopped warm draining my vehicles years ago. It’s faster but it doesn’t really make a difference in my opinion. If it sat overnight, the oil is in the pan and letting it have time to drain out is what matters. Warm oil lets you do it faster. (2) Could the tech be confusing quart and liter? A liter is a bit more than a quart and four liters would be 4.22675 quarts. I put in 4 quarts with no issues. I’m a Notary Public. RESPECT MY AUTHORITY! |
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Well, there are more angles to this than a dodecahedron. I emailed my service guy and got a reply that the service manager said "it's normal" (meaning the oil at the top of the sight glass isn't a problem). I simply replied saying "thanks" and said I'd keep the email on file in the event of any future warranty issue. He DID offer to adjust the oil level, which would have meant another trip to the dealer with all the time and inconvenience that involves, but I said if it's "normal" that I didn't see the need. |
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Sat May 13, 2023 9:48 pm (Last edited: Sun May 14, 2023 2:43 pm)
Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #27 This is the same filter BMW uses. They're a good vendor and give BMW MOA members a 10% discount. You can also buy singles. https://www.beemerboneyard.com/114277217794pk.html Washers https://www.beemerboneyard.com/r12lcengcrush.html This oil meets BMW Specs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MISDII?ref...sprefix=castrol Lee |
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8 I'm late to this thread and have just seen this so... what the f***??? Just for the regular first 1000 mile service? That is absolutely insane. I paid 178 Euros which is about 70 more than the regular Honda (dealer) service which is in the 110 EUR range. Can't wrap my head around the 540...
Year-round riding enthusiast i.e. seasonal motorcycle popsicle.
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Sat May 20, 2023 11:25 pm (Last edited: Sat May 20, 2023 11:27 pm)
Zitat von Valks im Beitrag #29Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #8 If you can't wrap your head around that $540, try this: The service invoice proclaimed at the top "Dealer to provide complimentary general inspection". I was still in shock from forking over $540 for, basically, an oil service, that this statement didn't really sink in for a short time. Then I thought, "What the *^%*!...the first service IS an inspection along with an oil service..." Am I supposed to believe that they did me a "favor"? That my service would have been even more expensive had the inspection not been "complimentary"? I emailed my salesman there, he forwarded it to the service manager asking for clarification. That was two days ago...haven't heard from anyone yet. But this is sufficiently questionable that, in the absence of a response (which in my opinion should include a "roll-back" of some of that first service charge), I will email BMW North America and alert them to the potentially predatory practices of this dealer. I could speculate that because they're also an RV dealer and RV sales nationwide are down over 50% year-over-year they are attempting to recoup some lost revenue by increasing labor charges significantly. I recall when (about a year ago) labor charges at this dealer were approximately $80-85 per hour; they're now about $130 per hour. On this service they booked 3 hours of labor. The rest of the charges were fluids, filter and "miscellaneous charges". |
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