California adopts regulations to end sales of gas-power vehicles by 2035

Attached is an article detailing California's "zero-emission" sales requirements which will prevent the selling of new gasoline-powered SUVs, pickups and autos in 2035. You can expect these regulations to be adopted by a number of other states in the U.S. within the next year and I wouldn't discount that they might also be adopted by the U.S. government at some point in the future. One interesting item is that new motorcycle sales are not covered by the CA Air Resources Control Board rules - yet. They will be working on that issue in the future, along with formulating big truck regulations.

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Expect massive pushback on that. EVs will not be the future. We don’t have the materials or infrastructure to make it work…forget about the price for a new EV being out of reach for most Americans. “Cash for clunkers” wound up driving up the cost for used cars by pulling a lot of them off the market.

Yesterday, I ran a short errand in my PHEV car. While it's my first non-manual transmission car since 1988, I am fascinated by its lack of transmission "wind up" at low speed or starting from a stop. It just goes, using flat electric motor torque, instead of waiting for the torque converter and engine to find a happy medium.....

On thing that wasn't mentioned in that article is how road taxes will be recovered as in the U.S. road maintenance taxes are recovered by taxing gasoline sales, which are measured at the pump and collected from both the gas station operator and the refineries. (In CA there are also sales taxes on gasoline.) Current gas taxes in the state are something like 54 cents per gallon and you can add another 18 cents of federal taxes - along with another 35 cents per gallon that is not a tax which mysteriously popped up a few years ago just in California, but no one knows who gets that. (Probably the refineries as "extra profit" for providing this important service to CA drivers.)

There is talk of taxing EV drivers by the number of miles that they drive every year via some tracking method (which seems like a good idea to me as I don't travel much anymore), but needless to say quite a few people complain about that idea as being invasive and don't want Big Brother (or Google) keeping track of where they go. I foresee a tough road ahead for the transition to all electric propulsion.

Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #4

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On thing that wasn't mentioned in that article is how road taxes will be recovered as in the U.S. road maintenance taxes are recovered by taxing gasoline sales, which are measured at the pump and collected from both the gas station operator and the refineries. (In CA there are also sales taxes on gasoline.) Current gas taxes in the state are something like 54 cents per gallon and you can add another 18 cents of federal taxes - along with another 35 cents per gallon that is not a tax which mysteriously popped up a few years ago just in California, but no one knows who gets that. (Probably the refineries as "extra profit" for providing this important service to CA drivers.)

There is talk of taxing EV drivers by the number of miles that they drive every year via some tracking method (which seems like a good idea to me as I don't travel much anymore), but needless to say quite a few people complain about that idea as being invasive and don't want Big Brother (or Google) keeping track of where they go. I foresee a tough road ahead for the transition to all electric propulsion.

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California's current solution to recoup road taxes from owners of electric vehicles is to charge them an additional flat $100 per year on their yearly vehicle licensing fee. My understanding that this only applies to new vehicles purchased after a certain year and I think (but I am not sure) that it also applies to electric motorcycles. I bought my 2018 Zero in November 2017 before the law was passed and fortunately am not subject to this additional fee every year.

So, no matter how much you use it, you get charged $100?

In PA, with our 57.6-cents of gasoline tax, $100 corresponds to the tax revenue from 174 gallons of gas. If you're driving a small BEV like Chevy Bolt or the Hyundai products, the ICE equivalent vehicle likely gets 32~35-mpg. So, if you drive that vehicle more than 5500 to 6000-miles per year, you're saving on taxes. If you drive less than that, you're paying a tax premium to use the roads.

Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #7

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So, no matter how much you use it, you get charged $100?

In PA, with our 57.6-cents of gasoline tax, $100 corresponds to the tax revenue from 174 gallons of gas. If you're driving a small BEV like Chevy Bolt or the Hyundai products, the ICE equivalent vehicle likely gets 32~35-mpg. So, if you drive that vehicle more than 5500 to 6000-miles per year, you're saving on taxes. If you drive less than that, you're paying a tax premium to use the roads.

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Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #8

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #7

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So, no matter how much you use it, you get charged $100?

In PA, with our 57.6-cents of gasoline tax, $100 corresponds to the tax revenue from 174 gallons of gas. If you're driving a small BEV like Chevy Bolt or the Hyundai products, the ICE equivalent vehicle likely gets 32~35-mpg. So, if you drive that vehicle more than 5500 to 6000-miles per year, you're saving on taxes. If you drive less than that, you're paying a tax premium to use the roads.

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That's about the size of it. The $100 fee might work out for Tesla owners, but definitely not for electric motorcycles or anyone who doesn't drive their EV regularly. Apparently it was just an easy thing to do, coming up with a flat rate to be collected every year, rather than trying to make a tax system that was more fair. I think I read that Oregon has a $200 EV yearly license renewal fee. If you are a lawmaker, just pick a number and dump into a simple law.

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #7

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So, no matter how much you use it, you get charged $100?

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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #10

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #7

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So, no matter how much you use it, you get charged $100?

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That’s how it is in Virginia, but they are rolling out a program to track mileage and assess based on actual mileage and not the $100 flat fee.

Problem is, this could be done by getting a mileage affidavit when the car is inspected annually. Instead, you’re using a 3rd part vendor who want to make you install a dongle onto your car’s diagnostic port. This mean you’re putting a tracker on your car that transmits God knows what to an outside party, and I saw nothing in their TOS indemnifying you should their dongle cause vehicle issues. So, hard pass on that.

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #11

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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #10

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #7

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So, no matter how much you use it, you get charged $100?

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That’s how it is in Virginia, but they are rolling out a program to track mileage and assess based on actual mileage and not the $100 flat fee.

Problem is, this could be done by getting a mileage affidavit when the car is inspected annually. Instead, you’re using a 3rd part vendor who want to make you install a dongle onto your car’s diagnostic port. This mean you’re putting a tracker on your car that transmits God knows what to an outside party, and I saw nothing in their TOS indemnifying you should their dongle cause vehicle issues. So, hard pass on that.

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Bluetooth or WiFi connected Smartphones or any of the various on-board systems (OnStar, BMW Connect, etc) would pose the same risk...

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #11

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Bluetooth or WiFi connected Smartphones or any of the various on-board systems (OnStar, BMW Connect, etc) would pose the same risk...

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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #13

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #11

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Bluetooth or WiFi connected Smartphones or any of the various on-board systems (OnStar, BMW Connect, etc) would pose the same risk...

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Can’t speak for whole car systems (OnStar), but Bluetooth connection for sound systems limit any harm to the sound system…and the car company designs the system to perform this function. If Bluetooth connection to your car resulted in harm, it would lead to a recall by the government at the manufacturers’ expense.

A dongle, by comparison, may or may not be extensively tested. If it causes harm, both the car company and the dongle maker will blame each other for the harm…leaving the car owner out in the cold because buying a new car is cheaper than litigation.

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I was surprised to see in a TV story about various countries ending gas-powered car sales that some countries, such as the UK will be ending them in 2030. (I hope they can find the electrical power and infrastructure to recharge the new EVs.) And then there are even a handful of countries like Mexico (?) that plan to cease new car sales in 2025. California is bragging that they have the toughest restrictions in the U.S., but apparently not in the world. I have no idea how Mexico is going to push EVs into both their economy and their environment. That is a very large and relatively poor country. In any case, by the time ICE sales are restricted in CA, we ought to know how it is working by the experience in many other areas around the world.