RE: Who makes the best helmet? - 2

Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #13

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Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #11

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Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #9

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Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #8

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I'm surprised the why the highly regarded ( and costly) Shoei, Arai, Schubert and others have not addresses the very real fact that rotational impacts are a significant hazard?

I see this as a significant short fall.

I'll be looking for that in my next helmet

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Did you not understand the comments about the shape of Arai helmets and what they call glancing off i.e. designed to reduce rotational forces? This was pretty much the essence of the article, trading off the ultimate protection for creature comforts such as noise, lighter construction, flip front and sun visors.

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Yep I hear that argument. Candidly to me it seems like a weak marketing excuse for lack of a real solution.

How is their shape significantly different than most helmets? Any science that would point to an optimum shape? Do they use that?

In reality they are counting on the helmet to ground, mud, concrete, guard rail, etc ,etc coefficient of friction ( these are widely different COE by the way) to do the job of dampening rotational acceleration.

Is their helmet slipper than any other so it slides (dampens) better than any other..even the cheapest helmets?

ps I have an Aria on my helmet shelf with others

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Relative to rotation, Arai's approach is round profile will have more consistent/uniform rotational characteristics during impact than a helmet shape with extended chin bars or aerodynamic tails.

The rotational load issue is a new topic, but I'm not sure I'm willing to give up impact load capacity for a benefit that a current helmet may provide with the comfort liner and the friction between it and the rider's scalp. Two-stage isolation for heavy impact loads usually requires a beefy foundation to absorb a large load while providing space for the soft mount which handles the small loads. For some of these new concept helmets, the manufacturers specifically state they aren't designed to meet Snell standards.

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I've worn Bell, Shark, and HJC helmets over the years. Presently wear modulars, and fully understand they aren't as structurally sound as a full face non modular as a rule.

I'm not sure, in the long run, that any of them are a guarantee of surviving a crash without head/neck injuries.

Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #16

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I don't know which specs are best. DOT, Snell EU. I don''t know that any of them address mitigation of rotational impact to the brain. Maybe some one else does and can share that info.

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Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #16

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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #13

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Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #11

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Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #9

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Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #8

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I'm surprised the why the highly regarded ( and costly) Shoei, Arai, Schubert and others have not addresses the very real fact that rotational impacts are a significant hazard?

I see this as a significant short fall.

I'll be looking for that in my next helmet

---

Did you not understand the comments about the shape of Arai helmets and what they call glancing off i.e. designed to reduce rotational forces? This was pretty much the essence of the article, trading off the ultimate protection for creature comforts such as noise, lighter construction, flip front and sun visors.

---

Yep I hear that argument. Candidly to me it seems like a weak marketing excuse for lack of a real solution.

How is their shape significantly different than most helmets? Any science that would point to an optimum shape? Do they use that?

In reality they are counting on the helmet to ground, mud, concrete, guard rail, etc ,etc coefficient of friction ( these are widely different COE by the way) to do the job of dampening rotational acceleration.

Is their helmet slipper than any other so it slides (dampens) better than any other..even the cheapest helmets?

ps I have an Aria on my helmet shelf with others

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Relative to rotation, Arai's approach is round profile will have more consistent/uniform rotational characteristics during impact than a helmet shape with extended chin bars or aerodynamic tails.

The rotational load issue is a new topic, but I'm not sure I'm willing to give up impact load capacity for a benefit that a current helmet may provide with the comfort liner and the friction between it and the rider's scalp. Two-stage isolation for heavy impact loads usually requires a beefy foundation to absorb a large load while providing space for the soft mount which handles the small loads. For some of these new concept helmets, the manufacturers specifically state they aren't designed to meet Snell standards.

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The Snell Std have always been the most difficult direct Impact (shell does not fail) on helmet integrity based early auto racing and roll bar impact. It did not consider energy to the head. The above video/text restates this. Many of todays "best helmets" do not meet Snell, ie Shuberth, some Shoei, etc
Some have said that DOT does a better job of specs that reduce energy to the head than Snell.

I don't know which specs are best. DOT, Snell EU. I don''t know that any of them address mitigation of rotational impact to the brain. Maybe some one else does and can share that info.

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Still like the reviews of my favorite art history/physics major, Ryan Kluftinger. This one includes a nice review of basic helmet structure in the general context of FIM/ECE/Snell/DOT requirements. (Unlike some of his early videos, no guns are used in testing.)

Thanks Mr. 36654 and Ray B.

After spending too much time skimming the 2015 conference power points and the current Snell2020 D and R which confirm the importance of addressing rotational brain damage but pretty much ignored in the current helmet specs....I looked at Ray B. F9 video.

Should have done that first!!

Surprising results. WOW I will be also looking more at 6D....not sure where they stand in all this

Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #22

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Thanks Mr. 36654 and Ray B.

After spending too much time skimming the 2015 conference power points and the current Snell2020 D and R which confirm the importance of addressing rotational brain damage but pretty much ignored in the current helmet specs....I looked at Ray B. F9 video.

Should have done that first!!

Surprising results. WOW I will be also looking more at 6D....not sure where they stand in all this

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Surprisingly there are a lot of nice helmets these days
I have been an Aria guy but my newest is a Schuberth modular with BT, love it.

The best helmet is the one that fits. And can be worn all day without thinking about being uncomfortable.

I have had Arai Shoie and then BMW system xxx but did buy the last one in stock of the system 6 as a back-up to my exisiting one.

Not a fan of the system 7 multi use design, IF you can unclip the front assembly for open face so easily then how do I chain it to the bike?

I remember the 1970's BELL helmet " If you have a $10 head then buy a $10 helemt " although whether it was $10 I cannot recall but you get the idea.

Cheap helmets are one thing of all gear related purchases that should be avoided.

@Paul911, apologies, I've no idea how I've disliked your post. Sorry

Zitat von limesgmt im Beitrag #26

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@Paul911, apologies, I've no idea how I've disliked your post. Sorry

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Thanks for the info, I'll be a bit more careful in future.

In the US, Shoei has announced a 15% Black Friday discount. Unfortunately, they jacked up prices 10% last summer on many models. So, that 15% cut is really just 5% relative to last year at this time.