Tuning and modding » Hilltop tuning scam

Ok guys listen up, had a 1200 RS “re mapped” by Geoff, kidded myself it was better for all of 20 miles but found the big flat spot at 5k and the surging instability when cruising were still there, I complained to his sidekick constantly via email and asked if Geof could look at it with a view to adjust the fueling on my particular bike and affect a cure...... a fault with the bike, go back to BMW etc was all I got........ well after a of digging I find that along with hundreds of others I have paid for nothing, the ECU was bog standard, it’s all been a scam from day one on my bike and many others....... check out Treetop Tuning and there investigation of Geoff’s tuning....... it doesn’t exist..... it may have done in the distant past but now it’s just a scam.

Where did the guys that investigated Geoff's tuning look for it?

Geoff is the first to say that his mods aren't located in the usual 'map adjustment location' but elsewhere in a partition creates for that purpose.

I went along with an open mind. I took what he said with a pinch of salt. I rode my bike normally and noted any changes. Changes there were of that I'm certain.

I also read a post from another dyno operator who monitored Geoff's before and after process and confirmed that the dyno runs were legit.

It's possible it is a case of 'the emperors new clothes' but that's not what I notice with a stutter free 30mph in 2nd, a smoother 30mph in 3rd, stronger roll ons and a slightly better fuel consumption.

Peter

Bengarzy

Rather than start a new thread see here

Hilltop Group Booking

Zitat von Bengarzy im Beitrag #1

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Ok guys listen up, had a 1200 RS “re mapped” by Geoff, kidded myself it was better for all of 20 miles but found the big flat spot at 5k and the surging instability when cruising were still there, I complained to his sidekick constantly via email and asked if Geof could look at it with a view to adjust the fueling on my particular bike and affect a cure...... a fault with the bike, go back to BMW etc was all I got........ well after a of digging I find that along with hundreds of others I have paid for nothing, the ECU was bog standard, it’s all been a scam from day one on my bike and many others....... check out Treetop Tuning and there investigation of Geoff’s tuning....... it doesn’t exist..... it may have done in the distant past but now it’s just a scam.

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As a result of the new thread I saw speculation from a recent review of Hilltop where a dissatisfied customer speculated that post 2016 Euro 4 bikes were what was causing the problem with Hilltop's work.
That resonated with me as a potentially valid hypothesis - any engineers want to comment - as i am an engineering dunce !

Was that a UKGSer post Andy?

I don’t know what the Euro 4 modifications were Andy. Any mechanical or exhaust changes could be identified from the parts catalogue. Otherwise it would be down to the ECU. Saying that, given that the before and after dyno figures are genuine, there’s plenty of evidence for improvement in Euro 4 compliant bikes and even 1250s.

There was a guy on UKGSer that validated the dyno runs independently. Perhaps ask Geoff Whale to comment?

There are always people who choose to obsess on the negative and then go out of the way to prove their suspicions.

I’ve heard of a tuning company looking for the Hilltop modifications where they would normally make them and on not finding any assuming that Hilltop are conning customers.

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #6

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Was that a UKGSer post Andy?

I don’t know what the Euro 4 modifications were Andy. Any mechanical or exhaust changes could be identified from the parts catalogue. Otherwise it would be down to the ECU. Saying that, given that the before and after dyno figures are genuine, there’s plenty of evidence for improvement in Euro 4 compliant bikes and even 1250s.

There was a guy on UKGSer that validated the dyno runs independently. Perhaps ask Geoff Whale to comment?

There are always people who choose to obsess on the negative and then go out of the way to prove their suspicions.

I’ve heard of a tuning company looking for the Hilltop modifications where they would normally make them and on not finding any assuming that Hilltop are conning customers.

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I don't normally get involved in spats on the net but I will speak up here. Last year I took my R1200RS to the Picos mountains in Spain. Panniers loaded, rider only. On some occasions, inclines begun in 4/5th would require a lower gear to comfortably complete. No issues, I liked the bikes performance. Due to some of the cars at work that I drive being remapped, I decided to give my RS a Hilltop treat. Like many others I noticed the increase in torque straight away. This year's trip to the Picos on the same inclines with the same loaded panniers and rider only produced an interesting result. I no longer needed a downchange to deal comfortably with those inclines. The engine had more torque lower down the rev range and was easier and more comfortable to ride. To the doubters I can only say this - both the bike and I weigh the same, so something has definitely changed for the better.

I attended a Hilltop group booking. After my bike was tuned I pootled to Morrison's feeling a bit apprehensive because of concerns about Emperor's New Clothes but even in 2nd and 3rd there were definite improvements. I live near Kettering, not far from Hinckley so I didn't get long to test the changes but the way the bike picked up from 70 in 3rd, 4th and up was again definitely better. Everyone I met that day and everyone else on that group booking has noticed the same improvements, we can't all be deluded. If people have concerns fine, don't have the work done but don't dismiss the positive outcomes for so many of us.

Obviously this is what you may be asking, and it seems to be getting worse, bikes are tested non stop, nothing changed at all.

https://www.facebook.com/Treetoptuning/?__xts__

This old stuff again. Whether Hilltop is a scam or not, they are the very first to tell you that their software resides in an area of the ECU that isn't readily accessible and that it doesn't change the 'look up tables'.

So this just confirms what they say!

Regardless of whether my bike may or may not 'feel different' on the road and whether that might be in my imagination (despite nearly 50 years of riding experience) there are some readily noticeable changes on the tune being installed. For one, the extra burble and crackle on the overrun was instantly increased and hints at enrichment. If the Hilltop tune is all a scam this must be a magical coincidence. For another, an increase in average fuel consumption that has now settled to + 2mpg. Before the tune 2nd in a 30 limit was 'stuttery' and 3rd was 'lumpy', a frustrating situation. I can now use either gear and be happy with the power delivery. This isn't even considering any perceived performance benefits.

I do wonder if some folk are obsessed in a witch hunt and are coming on here to perpetuate their 'cause'?

Peter

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #11

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This old stuff again. Whether Hilltop is a scam or not, they are the very first to tell you that their software resides in an area of the ECU that isn't readily accessible and that it doesn't change the 'look up tables'.

So this just confirms what they say!

Regardless of whether my bike may or may not 'feel different' on the road and whether that might be in my imagination (despite nearly 50 years of riding experience) there are some readily noticeable changes on the tune being installed. For one, the extra burble and crackle on the overrun was instantly increased and hints at enrichment. If the Hilltop tune is all a scam this must be a magical coincidence. For another, an increase in average fuel consumption that has now settled to + 2mpg. Before the tune 2nd in a 30 limit was 'stuttery' and 3rd was 'lumpy', a frustrating situation. I can now use either gear and be happy with the power delivery. This isn't even considering any perceived performance benefits.

I do wonder if some folk are obsessed in a witch hunt and are coming on here to perpetuate their 'cause'?

Peter

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Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #12

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #11

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This old stuff again. Whether Hilltop is a scam or not, they are the very first to tell you that their software resides in an area of the ECU that isn't readily accessible and that it doesn't change the 'look up tables'.

So this just confirms what they say!

Regardless of whether my bike may or may not 'feel different' on the road and whether that might be in my imagination (despite nearly 50 years of riding experience) there are some readily noticeable changes on the tune being installed. For one, the extra burble and crackle on the overrun was instantly increased and hints at enrichment. If the Hilltop tune is all a scam this must be a magical coincidence. For another, an increase in average fuel consumption that has now settled to + 2mpg. Before the tune 2nd in a 30 limit was 'stuttery' and 3rd was 'lumpy', a frustrating situation. I can now use either gear and be happy with the power delivery. This isn't even considering any perceived performance benefits.

I do wonder if some folk are obsessed in a witch hunt and are coming on here to perpetuate their 'cause'?

Peter

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I'm not here to perpetuate a witch hunt but I dislike operators who make impossible claims.

1. The code is invisible.
2. The OEM map is dangerously lean.
3. In conjunction with 2 when the AFR has been measured after the catalytic converter.

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #13

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Those claims, are they written on the website in exactly those terms? I chatted to Geoff Whale at some length and I was given the info to the effect:

1. The code isn't where most people would look/expect to find it and it's where the BMW technicians don't visit.
2. The bike runs lean in some areas, to ensure compliance with emissions regulations i.e. particularly in closed loop mode (this is no surprise and closed loop is a mode that in my experience many people don't understand).
3. Irrelevant given 2.

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