RE: Hilltop tuning scam - 3

Usual " At the risk of ....." Disclaimer, but as an IT specialist with a background in coding the repeated claims of the software residing in a place no-one can find leaves a number of interesting questions....

1. For the ECU to boot, and the code to load, something in the bootloader must be "calling" (i.e. accessing) the mysterious code locations in the first place.
2. During runtime, all of the sensors, and there are numerous, and controlled devices such as injector and spark would also need to access and respond to new code and memory locations.
3. All of the other higher end functions, such as ABS, DTC, User displays, ride modes, etc. etc. etc. must also be able to interact with this new code.
4. Bosch ECUs are not built with a whole lot of spare "hidden" locations. They are largely considered "hardened" devices, with a mixture of code driven procedures and embedded pre-programmed ICs.

So......

For these claims of secret location and "Hidden from BMW" to be true the "Tuners" in question must have effectively completely rewritten the ECU code from scratch.....�������� Right down to the device driver level.......
Either that, of they have somehow managed to obtain the entire source code from Bosch or BMW (imagine how they would react if they thought there was any credence to the claims. ������).
Or, perhaps, they have managed to reverse engineer the entire system from scratch, including the hardware-embedded components.....

Happy for everyone here to draw there own conclusions from the above....

For me, I call Bullshit
(Mods: This is a valid and widely recognised Australian word. It is in the Macquarie Dictionary. Please do not censor.)
Even if by some miracle these people had the skills to do this, the cost of the effort involved would be absolutely prohibitive.
Unless they are perhaps charging $10K per bike?

I think there is an old adage relevant here:
"If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."

Don't think there will ever be a definitive straight answer to this conundrum, will there......

I don't claim to have a straight answer to this, but have just read the entire thread so feel entitled to add something. I also come at this from a relevant professional electronics/silicon chip/software background.
Hilltop or anyone else don't have to fully reverse engineer and then rewrite the entire ECU code, only the parts of it they are going to modify. Doing this sort of hacking/tuning is nothing new, neither is it limited to motorbikes, there is plenty of knowledge out there in the community. The ECU hardware gets more sophisticated with each generation (some of it is of the highest quality ;-) and increasingly the ECU's are protected from hacking, indeed this sort of protection is now written into applicable standards such as EURO-x. The reason they don't want stuff tuned is the usual environmental concerns but also for product marketing, warranty, insurance or other reasons.
OEM's like BMW buy ECU's from the likes of Bosch complete with lots of pre-developed software which they then must configure and tune for the bikes they are building. Some of this will be done on an engine development rig/dyno but there will also be programmable calibrations and adaptations. Because by the time a new model prototype is being test ridden, they don't want to have to go back to the engine development rig just to make a small change in how it rides before going into mass production. So despite all of the above protections there will be some adjustment possible if you know how to hack into the ECU.
So I believe it is technically possible for a company such as Hilltop to really do what they claim they are doing. Also there are clear reasons why others in the same market, such as Dynojet, will want to undermine them. (Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's not real).
Having said all that, there is considerable placebo effect involved when you spend time and money on your bike in pursuit of improvement. Notice how much better your bike handles when you fit fresh tyres? That is at least partly the same effect.
Personally, my 1250 runs sweet-as and I have no need for any adjustment. I had a cheap booster plug fitted on my 1200GS where it definitely improved the throttle response at the low-end (in what I presume was the closed-loop mode) but there is no apparent need for that with the 1250. But I note this thread is in the 1200-tech section

@Ali-bear :

I agree that hacking the ECU is nothing new, and many tuners do it.
They do it by changing the stored values (or parameters, or map) that the ECU uses.

However, the scam Tuners in question claim that there hack is invisible to BMW/Bosch etc.

It is this claim that is (thanks Wessie) BULLSHIT

Maybe that is bollox. But it would take an unfeasibly large set of balls for one guy to systematically rip off thousands of bikers.
Now if it were Ducati, Triumph, etc., ...

So do you think he’s falsifying the before and after Dyno readings then ?

Not sure about BMW, but many people modify the maps on their ECU with something like a Power Commander. You disconnect the ECU, plug in an interceding module to the unit, and that let's you modify the maps...all through the module, the ECU doesn't get altered at all. Don't they make one for the BMW?

Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #38

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Not sure about BMW, but many people modify the maps on their ECU with something like a Power Commander. You disconnect the ECU, plug in an interceding module to the unit, and that let's you modify the maps...all through the module, the ECU doesn't get altered at all. Don't they make one for the BMW?

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I completely agree. Maybe it's a fluke, but the fueling of my 16 RS is better than any bike I have owned in over 50 years of riding. No plans to mess with it.