Exhausts and Engine » Autoblipper down-change locking

Ok... so you're bowling into a corner scrubbing speed off & everything's going well & randomly the gear lever goes rigid & you're stuck in 5th or 4th where you'd probably have dropped to 2nd (thank god for ABS Pro). Thing is yesterday, same corner, it was fine, but you were going 10mph slower & didn't need it as much.

Now I know there's a whole load of conditions written into the manual about when it will or won't change which are difficult to analyse on the fly, but what I do know is that on the 1200s I've had I'd never have this problem.

Presumably it's just a software decision. Anyone else experienced it?

Hiya

I'm assuming that the throttle is fully shut before you're loading the lever?

If it is then yes you may have an issue.

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #2

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Hiya

I'm assuming that the throttle is fully shut before you're loading the lever?

If it is then yes you may have an issue.

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Hi Hedgehog

I am having the same issues with the downshift, it never happened that I remember on my XR1000, but i have noticed that if the throttle is even a little bit open the downshift is locked solid, I almost have to turn the throttle until it stops and then a little more for it to allow the downshift, I have just had the latest software uploaded to my 1250 RS and the same issues, I am hoping to get used to it and on it's next service i will ask them to have a look at it, it may just need a slight adjustment.

I was having this problem intermittently on my '17 RS. Reloading the system didn't fix it but replacing the black box on the shift linkage solved it.

Frank

OK... thanks for all the replies but I think I found the problem. I have the Riding Modes Pro & my standard set-up for everyday riding on this & my last 2 1200RS's is Rain ASC/DTC with full power, which worked seamlessly on the 1200's. I've ridden for 4 years & 40,000 miles on this set-up without incident. On the inconsistent roads around here I like to have the full support from the electronics... I am most definitely not from the switch-all-the-electronics-off mind set.

On the 1250 however (which now has ABS Pro) I've used the same set-up & it seems it has included in its rain mode ASC algorithm that if you're doing a certain speed in a certain gear & apply a certain amount of braking, that changing down at that point may cause instability, so it stops you from doing it through the blipper. This can't be based on sensed grip levels because I use it in the dry & that's when it's most noticeable. What it also isn't sensing is how close I am to the corner & how much of a mess I'm going to make of it by being 1 or 2 gears above the ideal... as I say, thank god for ABS Pro.

Anyway, I switched the ASC back to Dynamic & I haven't had a single repeat of it, hence my conclusion. So with the limited number of combinations you can have in the Pro mode I probably won't have any use for it now... which is a shame.

I've only done 2 rides (40 miles) back on Dynamic, so I'll get back to you if it reoccurs, but it seems that's what the problem was.

Well found - we can blame algorithms for everything these days!!

Zitat von Boxerboy im Beitrag #8

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Well found - we can blame algorithms for everything these days!!

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Zitat von Hedgehog im Beitrag #9

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Zitat von Boxerboy im Beitrag #8

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Well found - we can blame algorithms for everything these days!!

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... algorithms & cans!

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I find this problem difficult to understand if you are saying that the quickshifter black box in the linkage is physically preventing a gear change, as I don't think that is possible.

I could understand this problem if the QS box is failing to detect pressure on the lever so does not talk to the ECU to trigger a momentary ignition pause on upshifts, or a rev matching blip on downshifts, both of which are aimed at assisting clutchless changes by reducing internal mechanical loads on the geartrain at just the right moment to minimise the resistance to gear changing. If detection of operation of the gear lever failed, the QS assistance would not be activated, and this would mean you were trying to clutchless shift without such assistance. This might well translate to a feeling of the gear lever not wanting to move due to resistance from the fully loaded gear train in the gearbox.

However, unless BMW's system is different to others, the QS box mechanically just forms part of the physical linkage from lever to gearbox and has no ability to actually prevent the lever moving - how would it even do that? I am prepared to be corrected on this, but as far as I know all it does is measure the pressure applied and at the appropriate moment talk to the ECU to trigger the ignition cut or blip needed to take the pressure off the gearbox internals. In theory this reduces internal loads on the gear sufficiently to allow the clutchless shift to take place with as little mechanical resistance as possible, though personally I regard these systems as a bodge which inevitably put more strain on gearboxes.

I would therefore suspect that either the QS box is faulty (or the software associated with it has glitches in some operating modes) or possibly the clutch movement detection switch is intermittently faulty and is telling the system that the clutch is being used when in fact it isn't. In the latter case the QS would be ignored by the ECU and you would effectively be trying to make the gear change without either clutch or QS assistance. The same would happen if you unconsciously put slight pressure on the clutch lever in the stressful situation described, which would not be enough to properly operate the clutch, but could be enough to disable the quickshifter assistance.

Zitat von fred_jb im Beitrag #11

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I find this problem difficult to understand if you are saying that the quickshifter black box in the linkage is physically preventing a gear change, as I don't think that is possible.

I could understand this problem if the QS box is failing to detect pressure on the lever so does not talk to the ECU to trigger a momentary ignition pause on upshifts, or a rev matching blip on downshifts, both of which are aimed at assisting clutchless changes by reducing internal mechanical loads on the geartrain at just the right moment to minimise the resistance to gear changing. If detection of operation of the gear lever failed, the QS assistance would not be activated, and this would mean you were trying to clutchless shift without such assistance. This might well translate to a feeling of the gear lever not wanting to move due to resistance from the fully loaded gear train in the gearbox.

However, unless BMW's system is different to others, the QS box mechanically just forms part of the physical linkage from lever to gearbox and has no ability to actually prevent the lever moving - how would it even do that? I am prepared to be corrected on this, but as far as I know all it does is measure the pressure applied and at the appropriate moment talk to the ECU to trigger the ignition cut or blip needed to take the pressure off the gearbox internals. In theory this reduces internal loads on the gear sufficiently to allow the clutchless shift to take place with as little mechanical resistance as possible, though personally I regard these systems as a bodge which inevitably put more strain on gearboxes.

I would therefore suspect that either the QS box is faulty (or the software associated with it has glitches in some operating modes) or possibly the clutch movement detection switch is intermittently faulty and is telling the system that the clutch is being used when in fact it isn't. In the latter case the QS would be ignored by the ECU and you would effectively be trying to make the gear change without either clutch or QS assistance. The same would happen if you unconsciously put slight pressure on the clutch lever in the stressful situation described, which would not be enough to properly operate the clutch, but could be enough to disable the quickshifter assistance.

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Well, I switched it back to rain mode in this morning's damp conditions & it reared it's head again... which is a bit naughty because it has no idea of the grip levels. So if you get this problem then yeah, definitely try the mode settings as a 1st.