RE: High voltage killing batteries?

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#16 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:43 am (Last edited: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:48 am)

Interesting feedback. Thanks all. Sounds like my my 14+V is normal for an RS.

I didn't use a trickle charger much on my late '16 RS until the original Yuasa battery started to fail after ~2 years. I then used it on the 2nd battery only if the bike wasn't ridden for weeks at a time. When the 2nd battery started to fail (after less than a year), I used it much more often. Eventually after ~14 months the 2nd battery just wouldn't hold a charge. BTW, I use the same trickle chargers on the AGM batteries in my cars, and they seem to last six+ years.

So I'm still unsure why batteries aren't lasting so long in my RS...

With regard to deep cycle Submarine batteries, they'd have a somewhat different makeup (thicker plates?), capable of coping with the much deeper discharge required here. Not all lead-acid batteries are equal apparently, including the "normal" wet batteries we used to deal with and the now more common sealed AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries.

With regards to Lithium, having a different chemical makeup I would expect their voltage charging requirements to be quite different. I believe you can't (shouldn't) use a normal 12V lead acid charger on a "12V" lithium battery. For those that use lithiums here, how do they cope with the onboard RS charging system? Has anyone had any issues?

Cheers.

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#17 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:56 am

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #10
14.6v sounds normal - 13.7 to 14.7V is the typical window for alternators on a car/bike

I would remove the non OE factor first, the charger. Do you actually need it? If the alarm current draw is negligible the AGM battery should stay charged for many weeks.

As above, I only connect a battery charger when needed. My RS battery is the OE battery from 2016

Do I actually need it? Well yes I did with the last two batteries. Let's see how this new battery copes without. My bike gets ridden year round. No layup for winter here.

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#18 | Rough road? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:16 am

Do you have a length of rough road you typically ride over?
Vibration will damage batteries, shortening their life considerably, as I discovered for my car which is often used off-road.

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#19 | RE: Rough road? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:29 am

Zitat von jdr im Beitrag #18
Do you have a length of rough road you typically ride over?
Vibration will damage batteries, shortening their life considerably, as I discovered for my car which is often used off-road.

Nothing too serious. Some bumpy mountain roads sometimes, but I back off "Dynamic" to "Road" setting if things get a bit bumpy. I've ridden these roads on many of my other bikes over the past ~35 years without battery issues, and they were all Japanese sportsbikes.

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#20 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:08 am

Zitat von TimMc im Beitrag #16
.......

I didn't use a trickle charger much on my late '16 RS until the original Yuasa battery started to fail after ~2 years. I then used it on the 2nd battery only if the bike wasn't ridden for weeks at a time. When the 2nd battery started to fail (after less than a year), I used it much more often. Eventually after ~14 months the 2nd battery just wouldn't hold a charge. BTW, I use the same trickle chargers on the AGM batteries in my cars, and they seem to last six+ years.

.....

I query whether the trickle charge is too large for your bike battery? What is a trickle for your car may be a substantial charge for your bike given relative size and capacity.

Hope that helps.

Chris

19 Plate R1250RS Exclusive with "bells & whistles" & full colour matched luggage
13 Plate F800GT with full luggage
Past loves: Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX, Yamaha FJR1300

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#21 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:52 pm

Lot of info shared here, but you still have the same problem, If you have an exceptionally competent dealer service Dept have them look at/ monitor your regulator out put on a scope (not a voltmeter). If your dealer is like most have them swap out you voltage regulator with a new one. Best chance of solving the problem in my mind. Good luck,

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#22 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:59 pm

Based on the Amazon customer reviews for YTX14 size Yuasa batteries it appears, at least, 20% of responses indicate a failure within one year. The Revzilla customer reviews are a bit more positive, but not radically.

So, it might not be anything with the bike.

Old Forum Orphan

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#23 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:03 pm

With regards to Lithium, having a different chemical makeup I would expect their voltage charging requirements to be quite different. I believe you can't (shouldn't) use a normal 12V lead acid charger on a "12V" lithium battery. For those that use lithiums here, how do they cope with the onboard RS charging system? Has anyone had any issues?

You're correct about a specific type of charger for Lithium batteries. I purchased a Shoria battery and charger for my old Ducati. But have only ever had it on charge once, during an extreme cold snap, maybe 3 years ago, and the battery is now about 6 years old. The cranking amps were higher than my stock lead acid battery and the weight and size were both shockingly less. They receive and operate under the same charging conditions as the stock battery. Whenever my original battery goes I plan on giving Shoria a chance in the RS.

these members like the post: TimMc and Mark

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#24 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:41 pm

Zitat von TimMc im Beitrag #16
Interesting feedback. Thanks all. Sounds like my my 14+V is normal for an RS.

I didn't use a trickle charger much on my late '16 RS until the original Yuasa battery started to fail after ~2 years. I then used it on the 2nd battery only if the bike wasn't ridden for weeks at a time. When the 2nd battery started to fail (after less than a year), I used it much more often. Eventually after ~14 months the 2nd battery just wouldn't hold a charge. BTW, I use the same trickle chargers on the AGM batteries in my cars, and they seem to last six+ years.

So I'm still unsure why batteries aren't lasting so long in my RS...

With regard to deep cycle Submarine batteries, they'd have a somewhat different makeup (thicker plates?), capable of coping with the much deeper discharge required here. Not all lead-acid batteries are equal apparently, including the "normal" wet batteries we used to deal with and the now more common sealed AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries.

With regards to Lithium, having a different chemical makeup I would expect their voltage charging requirements to be quite different. I believe you can't (shouldn't) use a normal 12V lead acid charger on a "12V" lithium battery. For those that use lithiums here, how do they cope with the onboard RS charging system? Has anyone had any issues?

Cheers.

I have been using lithium batteries on both my RS for the past two years and in my F650GS twin for the past five years without any issues. The onboard charging system seems to recharge the batteries just fine. I do have a dedicated lithium battery charger that I plug in when I return home after a ride but it will only operate for a few minutes before the standby light turns green.

Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2020 KTM 390 Duke; 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500; 2009 BMW F650GS; 2016 BMW R1200RS; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh

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#25 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:40 pm

Zitat von PlacidoD im Beitrag #20
Zitat von TimMc im Beitrag #16
.......

I didn't use a trickle charger much on my late '16 RS until the original Yuasa battery started to fail after ~2 years. I then used it on the 2nd battery only if the bike wasn't ridden for weeks at a time. When the 2nd battery started to fail (after less than a year), I used it much more often. Eventually after ~14 months the 2nd battery just wouldn't hold a charge. BTW, I use the same trickle chargers on the AGM batteries in my cars, and they seem to last six+ years.

.....

I query whether the trickle charge is too large for your bike battery? What is a trickle for your car may be a substantial charge for your bike given relative size and capacity.

Hope that helps.

Chris

having the same thought - most bike chargers are rated at 1.5A or less. Car chargers can be 10 times that.

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#26 | RE: High voltage killing batteries? datum

Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:42 am

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #25
Zitat von PlacidoD im Beitrag #20
Zitat von TimMc im Beitrag #16
.......

I didn't use a trickle charger much on my late '16 RS until the original Yuasa battery started to fail after ~2 years. I then used it on the 2nd battery only if the bike wasn't ridden for weeks at a time. When the 2nd battery started to fail (after less than a year), I used it much more often. Eventually after ~14 months the 2nd battery just wouldn't hold a charge. BTW, I use the same trickle chargers on the AGM batteries in my cars, and they seem to last six+ years.

.....

I query whether the trickle charge is too large for your bike battery? What is a trickle for your car may be a substantial charge for your bike given relative size and capacity.

Hope that helps.

Chris

having the same thought - most bike chargers are rated at 1.5A or less. Car chargers can be 10 times that.

Both my trickle chargers are small, fist sized motorcycle chargers. I also use them on my cars to keep them topped up when I'm overseas for months. A good, trickle charger, that stops feed in current once up to it's nominated voltage, will work fine to MAINTAIN (not properly charge a discharged battery) just about any 12V auto battery. They measure the battery's voltage, "trickle" current in, and then stop trickling when up to the "float" voltage. Think of them working like the water feed into your toilet's cistern with the valve/tap turned down to just let a small amount of water trickle into the storage tank. After you've flushed the toilet (flattened you battery...) water (current) flows in at a constant small rate until the float in the cistern floats high enough to cut off the flow. If the water level (voltage) drops the float lowers and the cycle starts again. With a trickle charger you can usually see when current's flowing. Depending on the charger, if the red light's on it's charging. If the green light's on the battery is fully charged and no (or VERY little), current is flowing.

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