RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift

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#16 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:22 pm

Zitat von spainy im Beitrag #11
Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #7
Zitat von spainy im Beitrag #6
Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #4
I think the jerky low speed running is due to very lean emission fueling requirements. I bought my RS in the spring of 2015 and it has excellent slow speed throttle response and pulling power. But I bet that bike was built to conform to Euro 3 regulations. It is possible that some Euro 4 models are running much leaner.

I mention this because I recently purchased a KTM 390 Duke for a lightweight toy. That bike had horrible low throttle fueling below 4K rpm, which was very irritating when ridden around town. And I am sure that its single cylinder and lack of any noticeable flywheel didn't help a bit. So this weekend I installed a Booster Plug on that bike and that simple device made a considerable improvement in around town fueling on the little KTM. While the engine still vibrates and lugs below 4K rpm, it no longer feels like it will not hold a steady speed as you might want to do while riding through town. I might add that I was very impressed with Booster Plug's customer service. It was shipped from Denmark and arrived via DHL Express at my home on the west coast of California just 4 days after I made my order. This compares with the usual 2 weeks it takes to receive a package from Amazon which has a big warehouse located only 100 miles from my home.

However, I have no idea how the Booster Plug might (or might not) work to improve the fueling on your RS.

Mine is a 2015 but is definitely not silky smooth. On my last bike (inline 4) it had an identical jerkiness issue which drove me crazy for 6 months before I realised it was a pinched fuel line. Idential jerkiness...could this be the issue?

Unlikely to be the fuel line. Some parameters can go out if sync on this bike. Throttle position sensor & throttle body balance are routine checks at a service.

When was the last service done? Maybe, when the next one is due, ask for another boxer as a loan bike and then you will find out if this is a problem unique to your bike or a feature of all boxers that you are not used to. I suspect the latter as I have heard this so many time before when people have come from Japanese inline 4 cylinder bikes to a boxer or V twin.

As to the quick shift. You are using it in the best way. Use clutch to go from 1-2 and then you can use the QS to go up & down. another feature of big twins is that the QS is a bit clunky, especially 1-2. Anyone that says it is not clunky needs to ride a S1000XR for comparison.

I own a S1000XR as well as the RS and I enjoy the unique characteristics of both but it does lead to the occasional mistimed gear change. I'm sure the cyclists listening to me rev the nuts off the XR as I hit neutral instead of 2nd were mightily amused as I pulled away from a junction yesterday morning. I completely confused the ECU by trying to achieve a clutched and a QS change in a moment of indecision.

The XR, the bike that I really wanted but couldn´t afford.

I'm greedy :)

A friend just sold his MT09 and is hoping to get an XR, but he is finding that even 2016 bikes are around the £10,000 mark. With the new XR costing nearly £20,000 if you add all of the toys I doubt the prices will be coming down very quickly.

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#17 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:23 pm

Yep that´s what I thought after googling shift cam lol

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#18 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:24 pm

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #16
Zitat von spainy im Beitrag #11
Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #7
Zitat von spainy im Beitrag #6
Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #4
I think the jerky low speed running is due to very lean emission fueling requirements. I bought my RS in the spring of 2015 and it has excellent slow speed throttle response and pulling power. But I bet that bike was built to conform to Euro 3 regulations. It is possible that some Euro 4 models are running much leaner.

I mention this because I recently purchased a KTM 390 Duke for a lightweight toy. That bike had horrible low throttle fueling below 4K rpm, which was very irritating when ridden around town. And I am sure that its single cylinder and lack of any noticeable flywheel didn't help a bit. So this weekend I installed a Booster Plug on that bike and that simple device made a considerable improvement in around town fueling on the little KTM. While the engine still vibrates and lugs below 4K rpm, it no longer feels like it will not hold a steady speed as you might want to do while riding through town. I might add that I was very impressed with Booster Plug's customer service. It was shipped from Denmark and arrived via DHL Express at my home on the west coast of California just 4 days after I made my order. This compares with the usual 2 weeks it takes to receive a package from Amazon which has a big warehouse located only 100 miles from my home.

However, I have no idea how the Booster Plug might (or might not) work to improve the fueling on your RS.

Mine is a 2015 but is definitely not silky smooth. On my last bike (inline 4) it had an identical jerkiness issue which drove me crazy for 6 months before I realised it was a pinched fuel line. Idential jerkiness...could this be the issue?

Unlikely to be the fuel line. Some parameters can go out if sync on this bike. Throttle position sensor & throttle body balance are routine checks at a service.

When was the last service done? Maybe, when the next one is due, ask for another boxer as a loan bike and then you will find out if this is a problem unique to your bike or a feature of all boxers that you are not used to. I suspect the latter as I have heard this so many time before when people have come from Japanese inline 4 cylinder bikes to a boxer or V twin.

As to the quick shift. You are using it in the best way. Use clutch to go from 1-2 and then you can use the QS to go up & down. another feature of big twins is that the QS is a bit clunky, especially 1-2. Anyone that says it is not clunky needs to ride a S1000XR for comparison.

I own a S1000XR as well as the RS and I enjoy the unique characteristics of both but it does lead to the occasional mistimed gear change. I'm sure the cyclists listening to me rev the nuts off the XR as I hit neutral instead of 2nd were mightily amused as I pulled away from a junction yesterday morning. I completely confused the ECU by trying to achieve a clutched and a QS change in a moment of indecision.

The XR, the bike that I really wanted but couldn´t afford.

I'm greedy :)

A friend just sold his MT09 and is hoping to get an XR, but he is finding that even 2016 bikes are around the £10,000 mark. With the new XR costing nearly £20,000 if you add all of the toys I doubt the prices will be coming down very quickly.

THe vibration issue also scared me away from pre 2017 models and that means more expensive again .

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#19 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:29 pm

Zitat von spainy im Beitrag #18

THe vibration issue also scared me away from pre 2017 models and that means more expensive again .

I have a 2016 XR. It has the rubber insert mod. The vibrations are noting to worry about. I've toured France, Germany, Belgium and Luxembourg on it with some 300 mile days. I have wonky joints due to a genetic predisposition to arthritis so would not tolerate anything bad. The bike has cruise control and this for me is essential to allow finger stretches on the move, which might be part of the reason I don't find it a problem. It's certainly nothing like my 1999 CBR600FX which made my right foot and hand go numb.

spainy likes the post

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#20 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:52 pm

A potential cheap fix maybe to try a couple of tanks of super unleaded fuel, especially if the bike hasn�t done many miles over a period of time, used to make a big difference on my old 2008 RT, after a couple of tanks standard fuel was fine.

spainy likes the post

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#21 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:51 pm

Zitat von Wayfarer im Beitrag #20
A potential cheap fix maybe to try a couple of tanks of super unleaded fuel, especially if the bike hasn�t done many miles over a period of time, used to make a big difference on my old 2008 RT, after a couple of tanks standard fuel was fine.

I've never been convinced of this argument as the RS does not have the ability to adjust to the higher octane.

Now, there might be a thing with using a better quality of fuel. Octane rating is not a measure of quality despite a substantial urban myth to suggest it does. Fuel does vary in the additive package from brand to brand so maybe running a tank of posh petrol might be of benefit.

There were some posts either here or in the old forum from a frequent visitor to Spain, where the originator of this thread lives. This poster was adamant that most fuel in Spain was crap and he swore that using anything other than Repsol fuel would lead to poor running. Again, as someone who has covered over 2000 miles in Spain on my RS, using a variety of fuel including Repsol, I am not convinced by this argument. However, I have not ridden in the south of the country so perhaps there is some regional variation depending on the refinery as the OP is in Marbella.

Worth a try as it won't cost a lot.

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#22 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:51 pm

I never found those booster plugs to do anything....

This is not about vibration but about jerky throttle behavior at low RPM's- it's
part of the compromise that had to be made with a lean running engine for emissions...

There is no solution except to tell yourself that it is not a problem.... but once you think that
you do not like it..... well then there is only one thing to do: buy a 1250....

reply

#23 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:25 pm (Last edited: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:45 pm)

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #21
Zitat von Wayfarer im Beitrag #20
A potential cheap fix maybe to try a couple of tanks of super unleaded fuel, especially if the bike hasn�t done many miles over a period of time, used to make a big difference on my old 2008 RT, after a couple of tanks standard fuel was fine.

I've never been convinced of this argument as the RS does not have the ability to adjust to the higher octane.

Now, there might be a thing with using a better quality of fuel. Octane rating is not a measure of quality despite a substantial urban myth to suggest it does. Fuel does vary in the additive package from brand to brand so maybe running a tank of posh petrol might be of benefit.

There were some posts either here or in the old forum from a frequent visitor to Spain, where the originator of this thread lives. This poster was adamant that most fuel in Spain was crap and he swore that using anything other than Repsol fuel would lead to poor running. Again, as someone who has covered over 2000 miles in Spain on my RS, using a variety of fuel including Repsol, I am not convinced by this argument. However, I have not ridden in the south of the country so perhaps there is some regional variation depending on the refinery as the OP is in Marbella.

Worth a try as it won't cost a lot.

Interesting that the newer LC bikes do not have the ability to adapt as the older r1200 appeared to have, by adapting the timing to reduce any pinking of lower octane which in turn reduced performance and was smoother after a couple of tanks of super unleaded at the beginning of the season, my thoughts are that unleaded �goes off� fairly quickly, so a couple of tanks maybe balance the octane level, presumably if you drained the tank and refilled with fresh fuel it may have a similar effect, can�t really comment on the r1200rs as went from a 2008RT to R1250rs as a retirement bike (the difference is amazing) although my brother thought that super unleaded every so often made his 2016 r1200rs smoother

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#24 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:21 pm

Zitat von Wayfarer im Beitrag #23
Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #21
Zitat von Wayfarer im Beitrag #20
A potential cheap fix maybe to try a couple of tanks of super unleaded fuel, especially if the bike hasn�t done many miles over a period of time, used to make a big difference on my old 2008 RT, after a couple of tanks standard fuel was fine.

I've never been convinced of this argument as the RS does not have the ability to adjust to the higher octane.

Now, there might be a thing with using a better quality of fuel. Octane rating is not a measure of quality despite a substantial urban myth to suggest it does. Fuel does vary in the additive package from brand to brand so maybe running a tank of posh petrol might be of benefit.

There were some posts either here or in the old forum from a frequent visitor to Spain, where the originator of this thread lives. This poster was adamant that most fuel in Spain was crap and he swore that using anything other than Repsol fuel would lead to poor running. Again, as someone who has covered over 2000 miles in Spain on my RS, using a variety of fuel including Repsol, I am not convinced by this argument. However, I have not ridden in the south of the country so perhaps there is some regional variation depending on the refinery as the OP is in Marbella.

Worth a try as it won't cost a lot.

Interesting that the newer LC bikes do not have the ability to adapt as the older r1200 appeared to have, by adapting the timing to reduce any pinking of lower octane which in turn reduced performance and was smoother after a couple of tanks of super unleaded at the beginning of the season, my thoughts are that unleaded �goes off� fairly quickly, so a couple of tanks maybe balance the octane level, presumably if you drained the tank and refilled with fresh fuel it may have a similar effect, can�t really comment on the r1200rs as went from a 2008RT to R1250rs as a retirement bike (the difference is amazing) although my brother thought that super unleaded every so often made his 2016 r1200rs smoother

was that a cheap super unleaded from Sainsbury's or one of those super duper fuels like Shell VPower or Tesco Momentum that claim to "clean" your system with superlative additives? Maybe a placebo effect like people who say Neurofen is better than ibuprofen? Can you tell I'm a bit cynical about these claims?

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#25 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:31 pm

Zitat von M3M im Beitrag #22
I never found those booster plugs to do anything....

This is not about vibration but about jerky throttle behavior at low RPM's- it's
part of the compromise that had to be made with a lean running engine for emissions...

There is no solution except to tell yourself that it is not a problem.... but once you think that
you do not like it..... well then there is only one thing to do: buy a 1250....

reply

#26 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:10 pm

Zitat von M3M im Beitrag #22
I never found those booster plugs to do anything....

This is not about vibration but about jerky throttle behavior at low RPM's- it's
part of the compromise that had to be made with a lean running engine for emissions...

There is no solution except to tell yourself that it is not a problem.... but once you think that
you do not like it..... well then there is only one thing to do: buy a 1250....

I don't need to convince you but they do make a difference, I first bought mine for my 15 rs it was just not smooth during operation and i was sceptical, i bought a second hand booster from a guy who had had it on his GS, it changed the 15 bike a lot, I took it off the RS for the drive to the dealer and P/X and it was back as it was, i fitted to my second RS and it transformed that, I now have it on my GS, its had not so noticable change as with the RS''s but is improved. they raise the fuelling by around 6-7 %, just by informing the engine management that the air is cooler than it actually is, and is varied by a temperature probe you place in the front of the fairing,

In the end of the day you need to try one to know.

Ged

2019 R1250 GS TE Black

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#27 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:02 pm

While I'm not a fan of booster plugs or other variations and have never bought one, they do change inputs to the ECU. The basic theory is to make the engine run richer, they do this by inserting a component in the temperature sensor circuit (usually a $.2 resistor ) which make the ECU think it is colder so supplies more fuel while cold. The flaw is as the engine warms, the ECU no longer uses this sensor input so warm engine fueling is not changed.

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#28 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:43 pm

What is this "Low speed" you speak of?

ASCENDING TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL OF CUNTISHNESS IN 2020

2016 Lupin R1200RS The Gentlemans Express.

duccrazydave likes the post

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#29 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:38 pm

Zitat von Bravo im Beitrag #28
What is this "Low speed" you speak of?

I originally thought that it was low speed 1st and second gear stuff, but Im sure that I can feel it even using cruise control at higher speeds now. Just a constant kind of light jerkiness.

At idle, I can almost actually feel the bike vibrating from side to side - from the engine as if it were the boxer pistons moving back and fore....is this normal?

Either that or it´s completely psychological and normal with this type of bike. I am completely new to boxers.

A mate of mine has the same one (the reason I bought it after seeing his) so I might have to ask him to try it and see what he thinks as he bought his from new and mine is 5 years old.

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#30 | RE: Two questions. Jerky at low speed and quickshift datum

Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:10 pm

Zitat von spainy im Beitrag #29
Zitat von Bravo im Beitrag #28
What is this "Low speed" you speak of?

I originally thought that it was low speed 1st and second gear stuff, but Im sure that I can feel it even using cruise control at higher speeds now. Just a constant kind of light jerkiness.

At idle, I can almost actually feel the bike vibrating from side to side - from the engine as if it were the boxer pistons moving back and fore....is this normal?

Either that or it´s completely psychological and normal with this type of bike. I am completely new to boxers.

A mate of mine has the same one (the reason I bought it after seeing his) so I might have to ask him to try it and see what he thinks as he bought his from new and mine is 5 years old.

the side to side effect is normal - BMW have almost eradicated it but it is a feature of shaft drive not the boxer. Go ride a Moto Guzzi or BMW from the 1980s and you will feel considerable side to side motion.

You will get used to it. Ride more miles, accept these as features. When you get back on an I4 you will feel it is bland and lacks torque, with a few notable exceptions.

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