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Hertz dumping 20K EVs on to the used car market
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Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:33 am
Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #15Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #14 Since a number of Teslas models are no longer eligible for the federal tax credit and the annual fees in several states makes them more costly to operate per mile than hybrid options when driven less than 10,000 a year, I can see the lack of interest.
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #16 No kidding. The $100 fee I pay for my Prius is inexcusable when one considers that if we got regular gas engines to average 50 mpg, they’d have no choice but to increase the gas taxes accordingly. So, they are punishing people for being fuel efficient. At least with a Tesla, you can argue they do more wear and tear to the roads. There is a way in my state to get a pro rated tax rate, but rather than letting you submit mileage based on the car inspection done every year, they want you to plug a dongle into your diagnostic port. NO THANK YOU. The diagnostic port is for short term use only, and diagnostic gear is designed to not harm the vehicle while it’s in operation. These dongles are normally mass produced in 2nd or 3rd world countries, and several cases of a car’s CANbus system getting bricked by the use of these dongles have occurred. Normally, neither the maker of the dongle nor the party wanting you to use it will contractually indemnify you against loss caused by using the device.
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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #17Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #16 When did VA start the $100 fee on the Prius? At 50mpg and a state gas tax of 26.2cents/gal, you're underwater (paying more) unless you drive more than 19,000 miles per year. The weight issue is a canard. Road and Bridge damage is a 4th power function of vehicle axial weight (GAWR, see the sticker on the driver side door frame of your vehicle). Yes, the big Tesla S sedan is heavier (GAWR = 1500kg) than your Prius (GAWR = 1000kg), both are less than a 4x4 F150 (1600kg < GAWR < 1880kg). In comparison to a similar big luxury car, the BMW 750i, the Tesla S GAWR is only 50~60kg heavier. Limited to that information and basing the tax on potential road damage, you would have the following ranking Vehicle..........GAWR...........Road damage factor......MPG_Avg .....................(kg)..................(per Axle)...............(EPA Avg) Prius.............1000.....................1.0........................50 BMW 740i......1440.....................4.3........................25 Tesla S..........1500.....................5.1.....................~3mi/KWHr......BEV F150.............1600.....................6.6........................20................6cyl ICE F150HD/PB.....1880...................12.5.......................23................6cyl Mild Hybrid C. Truck......<15400.............56245...........................5 So, while one can squabble about the tax difference between non-commercial vehicles with 1000 < GAWR < 1880 kg, the road and bridge damage issue is due to heavier commercial traffic (with 2 or more axles). Ironically, while nation-wide gasoline sales have plateaued since 2004~2008, while Diesel sales have continued to increase after the 2008 crash.gas and diesel.png - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte) On that basis, the damage issue isn't EVs, it's Commercial traffic.
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #18 I assume you have the same as us, a huge increase in vans of various sizes delivering amazon, Ebay etc parcels and groceries. We must get vans from at least 5 parcel firms every day and three grocery stores delivering during the week in a cul de sac of under 20 homes. All diesel of course and driving on suburban roads designed for cars and the weekly trash cart. Each of those parcel and grocery vans will of course work from a hubs where even larger trucks arrive several times a day. It's a shame our forefathers did not have the insight to keep open small goods yards in small market towns. Most were closed in the 1960s and in my town, the sidings have been covered by a trunk road to bypass the town. Instead, I think we have the occasional goods train pass through on its way from a forestry depot near the coast to a factory making furniture and a 2 hourly passenger service from Birmingham to the coast.
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Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #19Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #18 Amazon tried the in-town locker depot concept in my area (large public university town) which, I assumed, would have worked. However, they found few customers for that mode of delivery and closed the operation. In my area, UPS and Fedex use step vans (GAWR upto 6800kg) while USPS uses minivans (new) or vintage USPS mini step vans (Grumman-built body on a Chevy s10 2x4 chassis). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Small_USPS_Truck.jpg Less than 10 MPG!!!
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #20 I've only seen Amazon 2 times in our town and both times it was a large box truck. Our post office still has the old style vehicle that you showed. Rural USPS mail delivery drivers use their own vehicle.
Lee
2022 R1250RS White Sport Iowa, USA |
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For some reason, we never had Amazon operated delivery in my little town until last summer. It's a big Transit type van (or a Ryder/Enterprise rental truck) instead of a stepvan (like UPS or Fedex). The Amazon depot is slightly more than 50 miles away. I have no clue how they determine whether they, UPS or USPS will make the delivery. We get all three.
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around here in rural Wales, most parcel deliveries are by "white van man" i.e. self employed sub-contractors in unbranded vans. The only branded deliveries are a DPD van with regular deliveries to a homeworker across the road and the occasional UPS package. Plus of course the Royal Mail combined letter & parcel delivery. Amazon, DHL, Hermes & Yodel are all unbranded vans on piece work rather than salaries.
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The USPS announced a couple of years ago that they would be buying 50K electric delivery trucks, but since then I haven't heard much about the results of that very expensive master plan. Meanwhile my daily mail deliveries are still by the old gas-powered small heavy-duty vans that were bought in the 1970's. Those things just keep running and running, day in and day out. I have no idea how they keep their batteries charged up during the day as many mailmen (and mail women) just drive about 50 feet at a time, from house to house, turning off the truck at each stop to put mail in the home's slot. Those trucks must have one heck of a alternator and battery to allow them to do that a hundred or more times each day for years.
Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2020 KTM 390 Duke; 2009 BMW F650GS; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #18 I’d say 2-3 years ago. It’s a pain since Covid as I work from home most days, so I don’t even put 10K on the car each year. Keep in mind the $100 fee is in addition to the annual registration and tax.
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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #25Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #18 More than being a pain, it's unfair. You'll burn nominally 200 gallons of gas, but you're being charged the tax on 380 gallons of gas.
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #26Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #25Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #18 I think California does the same thing for new EVs purchased after the year when the law went into effect. Fortunately, I bought my Zero in 2017 before the $100 extra yearly registration went into effect. Of course, most owners in CA cars drive their vehicles more miles here than likely anywhere else due to the favorable weather in most areas of the state all year round and the relative enthusiasm for EV transportation. So in most cases the $100 extra fee likely doesn't really cover the lost in gasoline taxes if they were driving an ICE car, especially when considering the state's high taxes. (Not the case with electric motorcycles, of course as they don't get ridden nearly as much each year as cars do.) In any case, the gas tax system does need to be overhauled to compensate for the number of EVs being sold - at least in California. To me, the obvious way of doing this would be to charge a tax on mileage based upon the odometer reading at the bi-annual vehicle emission inspection required for ICE cars, which could be modified to include EVs. However, this would not include motorcycles as they are not inspected for anything after the initial sale of a new bike. Not only does the infrastructure to inspect motorcycles in the state not exist, but frankly, the state legislators don't even think about motorcycles unless a loud one rides by their home during the few times they are there and not out campaigning to be reelected or begging for more money for their next election attempt. 
Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2020 KTM 390 Duke; 2009 BMW F650GS; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh
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Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #27Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #26 There’s already news stories where people are thinking twice about buying and EV, hybrid or HEV (hybrid EV) because it’s just another cost factor. Indeed, a Prius takes longer to pay for itself compared to a gas Corolla or Camry when gas prices stay under $3/gallon. I thought they were going to add a “fuel tax” to public EV chargers to pay the equivalent of the gas tax when EVs charge. It’s no different from when they made online retailers collect state sales taxes because of how online purchases were previously impossible to tax unless the individual self-reported.
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Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #28Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #27Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #26 A Prius costs less than a Camry, but more than a Corolla. But, then again, it's bigger than a Corolla and smaller than a Camry. In any case, in 2025 all Camrys will be hydrids. I think in most states, there is an alternative fuel tax when using a for-fee public charger. In PA, the tax is based on the equivalent BTUs of the delivered fuel (CNG) or energy (electric). When the gas tax increases or drops, the alternative fuel tax drops or increases in proportion.
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I don't think California has come up with that idea yet.
Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2020 KTM 390 Duke; 2009 BMW F650GS; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh
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