RE: Fuel Consumption using E10

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#16 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:25 pm

Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #4
Zitat von Vtbob im Beitrag #2
The figures you quote are good...

If you were in the position of having the choice of E5 or E10 with equal additives which would you choose to fill the tank up for a bike with minimal winter use?

Thanks in advance

I would buy the E5.
My position on ethanol in gas is split. While I do not think it is the functional evil fuel that many adhere too, I am strongly opposite to the Federal Mandate to use Ethanol as a fuel. It is a remnant of the poorly thought our way to augment our fuel supply way back when we did not have enough oil. So we subsidized farmers to grow corn, subsidized others to process it into ethanol and mandated our automotive fuel suppliers to include it in our gas. It is especially dumb in today world where we have lots of oil. The corn farmers and others in the ethanol supply chain have become financially dependent on the Government subsidies to fatten their wallets so politically they strongly resist stopping this dumb program.
Sorry for the rant but you open the door.

these members like the post: Richard230, Lee, Bunter and runnerhiker

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#17 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:32 pm

Zitat von Boxerboy55 im Beitrag #12
What I have done, after reading online comments about E10 vs. E5, is fill my tank with Super E5 fuel on my last ride of the year as allegedly E10 may not like lying around in a vehicle tank for a long time.
i.e. stale E10 is not good for fuel tanks. Fuel pipes. Carbs. Or even FI systems

Where does this info come from? Interested to know as I'll be filling up after a longish ride tomorrow, and I expect it will be quite some time before I fill up again...

KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS

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#18 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:46 pm (Last edited: Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:11 pm)

Zitat von Freddyfruitbat im Beitrag #17
Zitat von Boxerboy55 im Beitrag #12
What I have done, after reading online comments about E10 vs. E5, is fill my tank with Super E5 fuel on my last ride of the year as allegedly E10 may not like lying around in a vehicle tank for a long time.
i.e. stale E10 is not good for fuel tanks. Fuel pipes. Carbs. Or even FI systems

Where does this info come from? Interested to know as I'll be filling up after a longish ride tomorrow, and I expect it will be quite some time before I fill up again...

Cannot remember the original source but the logic is that ethanol absorbs water. So the higher the ethanol content in your fuel tank and fuel system the more water you have sitting there for months potentially doing nasty things to your bike.

Of course both E5 and E10 are "up to" figures. It would be nice to identify an E5 brand that is consistently well below 5%.

EDIT: This article mentions the problems somewhere in the middle:

w w w.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

Chris

19 Plate R1250RS Exclusive with "bells & whistles" & full colour matched luggage
13 Plate F800GT with full luggage
Past loves: Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX, Yamaha FJR1300

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#19 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:17 pm

Zitat von PlacidoD im Beitrag #18
Zitat von Freddyfruitbat im Beitrag #17
Zitat von Boxerboy55 im Beitrag #12
What I have done, after reading online comments about E10 vs. E5, is fill my tank with Super E5 fuel on my last ride of the year as allegedly E10 may not like lying around in a vehicle tank for a long time.
i.e. stale E10 is not good for fuel tanks. Fuel pipes. Carbs. Or even FI systems

Where does this info come from? Interested to know as I'll be filling up after a longish ride tomorrow, and I expect it will be quite some time before I fill up again...

Cannot remember the original source but the logic is that ethanol absorbs water. So the higher the ethanol content in your fuel tank and fuel system the more water you have sitting there for months potentially doing nasty things to your bike.

Of course both E5 and E10 are "up to" figures. It would be nice to identify an E5 brand that is consistently well below 5%.

EDIT: This article mentions the problems somewhere in the middle:

w w w.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

Chris

https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

"Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with �up to 5% ethanol�, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps."

Where Esso draws the line for North England is not clear but I guess as N.Wales is E5, then the conventional division of the border being from the Wash to the Llyn Peninsula applies.

Unlucky

Spam goes here

Bunter likes the post

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#20 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:43 pm (Last edited: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:00 pm)

Dave,

Useful to know. I filled up with the stuff in Stourbridge a couple of weekends ago. That likely was E0. I have just emailed Esso to ask the question as to where the line is!

Have also just checked the BP and Shell sites. Found this on the Shell site:

"The RFTO target is typically met through the use of bio-derived ethanol in petrol ....... blended into Shell�s UK fuel products in compliance with current UK fuels specifications (up to 5% ethanol in petrol .....). This means that, in the UK, Shell regular unleaded and Shell V-Power unleaded are likely to contain some ethanol, but it will not be present at more than 5% (in accordance with current UK specification requirements)." (My underline to emphasise)

h t t p s://support.shell.com/hc/en-gb/articles/...What-is-Ethanol-

Chris

19 Plate R1250RS Exclusive with "bells & whistles" & full colour matched luggage
13 Plate F800GT with full luggage
Past loves: Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX, Yamaha FJR1300

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#21 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:50 pm

Zitat von Lee im Beitrag #13
Zitat von Boxerboy im Beitrag #8
I�m happy to make a small gesture towards the environment in support of my hobby. .

When you see the amount of fuel and chemicals that goes into the production of field corn, I'm not sure ethanol is kind to the planet.
In our part of the state we also have the added soil erosion that pollutes the streams because a lot of grassland was plowed up and changed to crop-ground when ethanol became big.
You need to look at the big picture. You can't start with the E10 that comes out of the pump at a gas station.

Hi Lee,
I�m happy to look at the big picture and be educated along the way. My understanding is that it takes one unit of fossil fuel energy to create 1.3 units of ethylene from corn, clearly that�s a marginal gain ( especially with �only� 10% per unit measure), sugar cane produces ethylene more efficiently but that�s not the major crop source in US. Just to broaden the view, the particulate matter is negligible from burning bio-ethanol versus petroleum gas so that�s another plus for the environment.
Still all of this is marginal, when I drive my hybrid car in electric mode I�m doing a far better job for the environment - depending how the electricity is produced of course!

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#22 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:48 pm

As an aside - I had the pleasure of looking after an ethanol plant in the 80s.

Not your farmer�s field type - the real deal high pressure copper lined reactor type.

It was the cleanest, sweetest smelling petrochemical plant I had the pleasure of working on.

The Customs & Excise kept a close eye on things.

Carpe Diem!

these members like the post: Boxerboy and Ray

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#23 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:17 pm

Lee's point is based on the situation in the US where our Ag economy (the corn market) is dependent on ethanol sales. In terms of acreage, the proportions are indicated on the following map.980x.png - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

If ethanol was being produced from waste material, that would be a different issue. But, as with an addict, US Ag has a "Monkey-on-their-back" and it isn't going away.

Old Forum Orphan

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#24 | RE: Fuel Consumption using E10 datum

Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:36 pm

Zitat von Boxerboy im Beitrag #21
Zitat von Lee im Beitrag #13
[quote=Boxerboy|p44220] I�m happy to make a small gesture towards the environment in support of my hobby. .

Still all of this is marginal, when I drive my hybrid car in electric mode I�m doing a far better job for the environment - depending how the electricity is produced of course!

Depending on how far you drive in any given trip, the Plug-in Hybrid option can be an even better option. In my case, at least 2/3-rds of my miles are on electric.

Old Forum Orphan

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