R1200RS + R1250RS Forum
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #2 They are Liberal UK values that might appear a bit woke for your side of the Ocean. I asked Grok to convert them to non woke figures based on US criteria for service prices, running costs and depreciation. It is somewhat distracted as it is very excited due to discovering BMW bikes are made in Berlin. It wants to electrify the whole range and name the models after senior Nazis. I'll let you know if it gets around to providing an answer.
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I’m surprised the repair and maintenance costs are higher for the Japanese bike. Insurance makes sense because of how insurance companies rate vehicles. You can have a bike just as fast or faster but because fewer are involved in claims, they think it’s a lesser risk.
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Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #3Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #2 This has nothing to do with "woke", whatever that really means. I'm talking about the values from an overstatement viewpoint. Try selling an RS after 4 years for anything like the values the article puts forth...and good luck! |
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #5Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #3Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #2 I was struggling to understand what you meant by liberal in relation to prices so went satirical. If you had said optimistic I might have got your point. As for the prices, the article does not seem to mention the source but I can guess they are taken from the maximum retail price if the bike is under the manufacturers' own approved used bike scheme. A scheme in the UK where BMW adds a 2 year warranty to the bike that is similar to the new bike warranty. We have a couple of guides used by dealers that give trade and retail values of used vehicles. Glass's guide and the Black Cap book. These have a quasi-religious status with various formulae to adjust prices for mileage and condition. Looking at the BMW Approved used prices, admittedly for the 1250RS at 3 years old, the price imagined does seem to be rather fantastical. 3 year old 1250RS are selling in a dealer for £11500 and at £14k you can get a year old, high spec bike. Of course, the new model's release will affect 1250 residuals to some extent. The author discusses finance residuals on what we call PCP, a type pf loan where monthly payments are reduced as you do not repay all of the capital. There is a balloon payment at the end of the agreement. This balloon is usually set at the lowest, trade value by the finance company. The idea being that there is then some leeway to encourage the buyer to trade in their 3 year old vehicle for a new one as the dealer will offer a higher trade in value than the balloon payment, where the difference forms the deposit for the next 3 year cycle. A merry go round that worked for many years but is starting to unravel as people keep their cars and bikes for longer. Multiple factors involved with this trend for a different thread. Back to the PCP residuals, they give the ballon payment at 36 months for the BMW at £9393 and Kawasaki at £7517. These are more realistic values as they are what a punter might get for the bikes at 3 years in a private sale. For their depreciation calculation, they used £14800 and £10800 which I agree, are unrealistic even to a franchised dealer able to command top dollar due to the warranty, finance and posh biscuits they offer. For a comparison, a dealer in the UK is offering a 5 year old bike with 20k miles for £9300 so that PCP trade in price for a 3 year old bike with average miles is probably realistic, especially as it is a higher spec bike in SE trim with auto box.
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I recently asked my BMW dealer, out of curiosity, what my 2023 BMW 1250RS, fully-loaded, with panniers and 13,000 miles and in perfect condition with recent 12K service was worth to them as an outright purchase, or trade. |
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #7 not sure why you think the figures in a British magazine would have any direct relationship to residual values in the US. it is evident that the market for the RS is much stronger in the UK and even more so in the EU.
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I don't think the typical motorcycle loan in the U.S. uses a balloon payment at the end of the loan period to reduce the monthly payment. When you make the final payment at the end of the loan term here, you own the bike. It sounds like what the UK loan companies do are more like a vehicle lease would be in the U.S. Not that I have ever heard of a motorcycle lease before. Which doesn't necessarily mean anything, because I have always saved up my money first and then paid cash for all of my bikes, so I never really investigated loans or leases.
Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh
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Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #10 PCP is a form of hire purchase in the UK not lease, just that you delay repaying some of the debt. I believe you might call it an instalment plan, although it would be spelt incorrectly as installment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_contract_purchase our PCP finance has 3 options at the end of the loan period, pay the balloon payment to settle the finance and own the bike; hand the bike back to the finance company and walk away with no debt or, as they hope, trade in for a new model using the difference between the balloon payment and trade in price as a deposit. for the duration of the loan, you are only paying interest on the balloon payment, so the monthly repayment is reduced by the balloon payment divided by the number of months of the term. So, if the balloon payment is 9600 after 48 months, your monthly repayment is reduced by £200 a month, which might half your monthly outgoings. Banks love PCP as they get more interest from you and dealers hope you are tied into the never never game of a new vehicle every 3 or 4 years.
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#12 | RE: Ride mag compares R1300RS to Kwak 1100SX
Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:05 pm (Last edited: Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:06 pm)
Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:05 pm (Last edited: Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:06 pm)
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I think that loan repayment system is called an "interest only" loan in the U.S. Current motorcycle collection: 2002 Yamaha FZ1; 2018 Zero S 16.6 kWh |
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Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #12 not quite the same as interest only as some of the capital cost is paid off, equivalent to the depreciation based on what the finance company thinks the bike is worth at the end of the term So, a 20k bike (balance after deposit paid) over 3 years at 5% flat rate interest will cost £23k at the end of the term Bike valued at £10,000 after 3 years so the punter has to pay off £13k (10k depreciation and 3k interest) over 36 months i.e. £361 a month instead of £639 Of course, to own the bike the punter has to pay the £10k at the end of the term, hand it back or refinance. I made up the figures to ease my maths. They are not based on any factual case study.
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Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #8Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #7 I see your point there, wessie. It is true there are demographic differences between the two continents, as well as different preferences for motor transport. For example, in the '60's the UK was about sports cars...the US was about muscle cars. As much as it pains me to say it, this is also a fairly accurate metaphor for the composition of our relative intellects. Ha, ha... |
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Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #7 I traded my 2020 RS back in January. It had about 18k miles on it and I got $10,500 in trade, with the factory side cases. From what I could find, I could have got $12k for it if I sold it privately. Considering that the dealer didn't care about the farkles and I could sell those separately and that trading in saved me on sales tax for the new bike, it was a wash. The dealer was MAX who are well known. Anyway, it sounds like your dealer is low balling.
2020 R1250RS
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