RE: Motorcycle tariffs - 2

Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #14

---

Zitat von BEARR im Beitrag #12

---

I like Warren Buffert's Wall Street aphorism, "When the tide goes out we'll find out who's been swimming naked". If nothing else, this tariff announcement and the ensuing "panic" is going to expose a LOT. The entire global economy has been swimming in an ocean of debt for at least two decades and now the bill is coming due. Who's over-leveraged and how naked are they?

---

Sorry, Warren...I meant "Buffett". Fat finger error.

---

Zitat von Dave H im Beitrag #11

---

Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #10

---

Since a lot of MC gear is made in places like China, Vietnam, Bangladesh and Pakistan, it looks like 30~46% price increases are to be expected.

---

And even with the extra cost surcharge I suspect they will still be lower cost option rather than 'made in usa' once the $2 an hour labour goes up to $20, unions get involed, health and safety guidline and using usa produced materials. Just loved yesterday's flip-chart presentation and the union car guy stating that "maybe 6 months to a year this will be back in usa!" - it takes years to develope a new car/motorcycle and complete full road testing - not sure Detroit will be making many extra cars for a few years. Maybe a music tax could help us get decent music from mowtown again rather than the rap, crap and grunge but those days, like their cars, have long been superceded

---

How are the various maga options (make america grate/worse/better/rich! again) getting reported in usa?
uk bbc reports not all well for the car workers stuck between canada and mexico, maybe those 900 workers can retrain to make nike shoes?

North America's car manufacturing sector is highly integrated, with a car crossing the US-Canada-Mexico borders multiple times before it is assembled and ready to be sold.

For example, some Ford F-150s have engines that are built in Canada with electronic parts manufactured in Mexico, and are then assembled in either Michigan or Missouri.

Stellantis' shutdown announcement on Thursday affects workers in all three countries. Not only did the company halt operations at its long-standing Windsor plant (what used to be the Chrysler plant) for two weeks, it also paused production at its Toluca, Mexico, plant for one month and laid off 900 workers in the US.

We all report on our best brakes, tyres, batteries on this forum from across the world, these extra import/export costs will no doubt make all our bikes more affordable! It would take years to nationalise production and by then where would the market be? Companies of all countries need stabilty and not grasshopper reactions.

As said already it is a real challenge to comment on this without it being political because it is a blatantly political move which hasn't had much thought go into it. Veering slightly off topic. There is no short or even medium term benefit to this. It is upending 100 years of fairly consistent economic policy and attempting to undo global trading. It will take companies like car manufacturers years and billions to reconfigure supply chains. In the meantime inflation rates will increase, everything from cars to iPhones will get more expensive in the US. An iPhone could cost more than $2000. I read that Apple are in the process of moving some production from China to SE Asia, like Vietnam, but they have even higher tariffs. The only beneficiary I have read about is US quality cheese manufacturers as European cheeses are going to get a lot more expensive. But I guess there must be other immediate beneficiaries?

This only even makes vague sense if it is a classic Trump negotiation tactic of going in ridiculously high and then expecting countries to come grovelling and reach a deal.

Zitat von Becksy im Beitrag #19

---

This only even makes vague sense if it is a classic Trump negotiation tactic of going in ridiculously high and then expecting countries to come grovelling and reach a deal.

---

Zitat von Becksy im Beitrag #19

---

There is no short or even medium term benefit to this. It is upending 100 years of fairly consistent economic policy and attempting to undo global trading.

---

Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #21

---

Zitat von Becksy im Beitrag #19

---

There is no short or even medium term benefit to this. It is upending 100 years of fairly consistent economic policy and attempting to undo global trading.

---

I can confidently say that when they were selling "free trade" and "globalism," people were criticizing that (1) it gave a grossly unfair advantage to some nations over others (an inability to compete with how cheaply a foreign country can do something due to no regulation, health and safety, etc.) and (2) it was largely engineered to move good paying jobs from the USA to elsewhere...with nothing substantial to replace those jobs. In an economy that depends on discretionary spending (buying wants over needs), this is a guarantee of economic collapse when too many people can't afford anything beyond the base essentials.

---

Zitat von Becksy im Beitrag #22

---

Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #21

---

Zitat von Becksy im Beitrag #19

---

There is no short or even medium term benefit to this. It is upending 100 years of fairly consistent economic policy and attempting to undo global trading.

---

I can confidently say that when they were selling "free trade" and "globalism," people were criticizing that (1) it gave a grossly unfair advantage to some nations over others (an inability to compete with how cheaply a foreign country can do something due to no regulation, health and safety, etc.) and (2) it was largely engineered to move good paying jobs from the USA to elsewhere...with nothing substantial to replace those jobs. In an economy that depends on discretionary spending (buying wants over needs), this is a guarantee of economic collapse when too many people can't afford anything beyond the base essentials.

---

That is a fair point. Ironically, I expect the traditional hard left in the UK (Corbynistas as were), maybe quietly happy about this. But conversely Trump wants the UK to remove our higher standards on things like poultry so the US can export poorly raised cheaper chicken products to the UK.

---

Global policy makers had a golden opportunity in 2008 to purge the system of excess speculation built on leverage. Instead, they panicked, wrote a blank check to the banks to keep the party going. Since then, the "junkie" that is the global financial system has gotten sicker and sicker, mainlining fentanyl-like debt straight to the veins of economic activity, and NOW they wonder how we got here?

Really?

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #23

---

from a UK perspective, the galling thing is that the US has a positive trade balance (when the service industry is factored in) with the UK but they have set a 10% minimum tax. The people in charge of the abacus seem to be using some pretty fucked up calculus. Just ask the penguins on Heard and McDonald Islands https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly8xlj0485o

---

Just as an example of the excesses endemic to the financial system, just this morning Jerome Powell, Fed Chair, was to give a speech. Prior to the speech, the administration essentially demanded interest rate cuts. Some were calling for an "emergency meeting of the FOMC", in order to cut rates RIGHT NOW! Powell wisely said rates would remain steady due to the inflationary effects of tariffs.

The world does not need more "free" money generated by Central Bank printing presses. If you and I ran our finances the way they've been run by monetary authorities over the past 2 decades, we'd have no credit rating, and be living on the street, or back home with mom and dad.

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #27

---

Zitat von zer0netgain im Beitrag #26

---

Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #23

---

from a UK perspective, the galling thing is that the US has a positive trade balance (when the service industry is factored in) with the UK but they have set a 10% minimum tax. The people in charge of the abacus seem to be using some pretty fucked up calculus. Just ask the penguins on Heard and McDonald Islands https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly8xlj0485o

---

To be fair, the wealth of the American Middle Class was rooted in MANUFACTURING jobs. While some service industry jobs pay well, they have never outpaced manufacturing. This was the beef many had with the proposal.

---

I understand the beef. I worked for Xerox in the UK and was made redundant in 2002 from a job in their electronics factory in the UK. I am fully cognizant of the corporate greed that led to the globalised world economy as my job went to Hungary in a factory owned by a company from Singapore. My father was made redundant when Margaret Thatcher decided we did not need coal mines any more in the UK. He was a truck driver hauling coal from Welsh mines so went back to dairy farming.
Thatcher and your Reagan believed there was no need for dirty jobs digging stuff out of the ground or bolting things together. You made your corn from the magic money tree off the backs of people in other countries doing the grafting by selling them services and charging commissions on stuff they wanted to sell.
I retrained and got on with life, retiring at 60.

I cannot see any logic in the mechanism deployed to bring about change by your administration. I think it will take many generations to heal the damage afoot.

---

Zitat von azqkr im Beitrag #29

---

Those crying wolf only need look to what his first term raising tariffs brought to the stock market while inflation tanked lowed.

---