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What about Snell Memorial Foundation helmets? ...... I wouldn't buy a helmet if it does not have that rating or the sticker on it ....
larry l langford
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Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #29Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #28 Yes, in a couple of cases Shoei does put a different name on the helmet, but I don't believe there are any physical differences beyond that. The NXR you get is the same as the RF1400 that we get. I have no idea why they do this but it's done in other industries also. I know Nikon used to do this with some cameras. It might be a way to segment markets. Zitat von paleolithictech im Beitrag #31 Snell won't even test a flip up helmet, one with a built in sunshade or one with a built in communicator. However, they will certify an open face helmet which is idiocy. The last I looked, Snell also doesn't really deal with rotational force such as what MIPS is designed to mitigate. ECE is a newer and different standard which is better in some ways, though maybe worse in others. It's worth trying to understand them if you're going to buy a helmet and not just blindly accept them.
2020 R1250RS
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #33Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #28 Sure, but that'd also mean one helmet couldn't pass both standards. As it is, both the RF1400 and NXR pass Snell. As far as I can find, the DOT standard hasn't been updated since 1974. It's an embarrassment. https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/wh...-certifications
2020 R1250RS
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Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #32Zitat von wessie im Beitrag #29Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #28 It's not a matter of SNELL refusing to test, but manufacturers choosing to not submit products for certification. The chinbar hinge mechanism and internal visors consume a good deal of shell and EPS liner volume which limits their ability to meet SNELL's higher energy impacts with a load-concentrating anvil. As an example, Shoei's GT Air helmet has failed DOT testing when impacted on the side. The transmitted shock loads exceeded DOT's time averaged limits. Since 3/4 and LEO-style shorty helmets don't have a chinbar, there's no strike location (a single point in SNELL and ECE tests). All the other strike areas "fit" on those helmets. But, as we know, about 40% of all helmet hits are on the chinbar or face shield areas. So, not a good choice for a rider. For the record, I wear a Shoei Rf1400 and Arai Corsair-X. When I teach safety classes, I wear an HJC i10. All SNELL rated
Old Forum Orphan
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#36 | RE: Helmet prices in US vs UK/EU.
Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:13 am (Last edited: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:15 am)
Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:13 am (Last edited: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:15 am)
Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #34Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #33Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #28 Periodic review and updating of standards is always good if it provides a benefit. Relative to direct impact energy levels, the existing DOT spec exceeds both ECE 22.05 and 22.06. In concept, the oblique testing specified in ECE 22.06 and SNELL 2020R (outside US) sounds great, but the test threshold values are too lax to be meaningful. Based on testing at various labs, most recent DOT or ECE 22.05 helmets will pass the new tests. It's like the HIC criteria specified in the ECE standard, the specified test value (<2400) greatly exceeds the HIC < 1000 criteria used for car crash occupants. Thus, it's meaningless, relative to our safety. But, once a test has been proposed, it creates a bandwagon effect. The upcoming SNELL 2025D (Domestic) standard will include the oblique testing protocol and the ECE 22.06 threshold values. Oh, relative the NXR, I'm not sure the latest version is sold with a SNELL sticker. Old Forum Orphan |
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A followup, I received my Neotec 3 ECE 22.06 version from fc-moto a few days ago. The shipping took about a week and it arrived in good nick, as you Brits say. Total price was $646 including shipping where if I bought one in the US, it would have been a minimum of $899 and possibly more if I had to pay sales tax (the state next to me doesn't charge it).
2020 R1250RS
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#38 | RE: Helmet prices in US vs UK/EU.
Thu May 30, 2024 3:58 am (Last edited: Thu May 30, 2024 1:39 pm)
Thu May 30, 2024 3:58 am (Last edited: Thu May 30, 2024 1:39 pm)
Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #37 I doubt it's a different shell. The US helmet market is a tiny fraction of the European market. As for the DOT helmet being lesser than an ECE 22.05 or 06, that's speculation. The challenge will be area around the chinbar and internal shield pivots. The DOT hemispherical anvil compresses those liner-limited areas. The Shoei GT-II helmet (fixed chinbar with internal visor) has problems in that area for the DOT test with it's HIC-style criteria. DOT is old, but it's not bad and in some ways more stressing than the current ECE spec. Old Forum Orphan |
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#39 | RE: Helmet prices in US vs UK/EU.
Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:53 pm (Last edited: Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:55 pm)
Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:53 pm (Last edited: Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:55 pm)
Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #37 I'm also following that podcast, previously Fortnine did a video explaining the differences on all the DOT/SNELL/ECE/FIM etc. designations and tests which took me down an afternoon research rabbit hole before deciding for postpone my new helmet purchase while more 22.06 lids hit the market in 2023. The main takeaway for me was (Europe here so ECE.06 anyways) that ECE 22.05 at the time and now 22.06 was just updated more taking into account data from crashes and injuries with motorcyclists over the years to more forward the bar on requirements. FIM goes even more stringent in some ways but it is focused on the racing standard and Marquez and his crowd will almost definitely be crashing differently than me (if it comes to that) - thereby those helmets can/could have some designs that make sense for racers while if not necessarily disadvantageous could at worst reduce or at best not affect their effectiveness on the street but with a 40% price mark-up. Smaller manufactures simply make do with one model for the major and all other markets similar to those with tighter budgets having a maybe two sized shell that covers XS-M and L-3XL with different padding while Shoei, Arai, HJC and the like will have several shells across the line to fit more individual heads. Revzilla concluded with the fact testing takes time and money and ECE actually requires testing and meeting ECE criteria before releasing it for sales to the market. DOT on the other hand allows submission for DOT stickers with testing taking place at random potentially some time later so the lids hit the market before testing. Personally I'd go with ECE every time and while it could be the case of some cost-cutting by Shoei simply because the laws in the US are less stringent (I believe another podcast touched on Illinois(?) removing helmet laws and seeing a spike in motorcycle accident fatalities) I don't think such a manufacturer would risk reputation in such a way - that being said corporations are corporations and if the bottom line is that a large enough market does not legally require what another does so... [edit] another fun tidbit from the podcast was that ~40% of DOT submitted (and on sale) helmets fail the DOT, unlikely to be Shoei but imagine the sheer amount of trash being sold Year-round riding enthusiast i.e. seasonal motorcycle popsicle. |
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Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #38Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #37 I suppose it's speculation on Revzilla's part, but it seems like they'd be highly likely to know.
2020 R1250RS
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Zitat von Valks im Beitrag #39 There are a lot of garbage helmets sold in the US, including the fiberglass yarmulkas the Harley crowd wears.
2020 R1250RS
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Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #40Zitat von Mr. 36654 im Beitrag #38Zitat von Paul911 im Beitrag #37 I doubt the folks at Revzilla get any more info than you or I. The Shoei product they sell comes from Helmet House, the Shoei distributor for the US. In my opinion, you did the logical thing. Helmet House is simply overcharging for Shoei and Alpinestar products. Go with the European retailers if you want those products.
Old Forum Orphan
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