RE: Hilltop tuning scam - 2

Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #14

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #13

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Those claims, are they written on the website in exactly those terms? I chatted to Geoff Whale at some length and I was given the info to the effect:

1. The code isn't where most people would look/expect to find it and it's where the BMW technicians don't visit.
2. The bike runs lean in some areas, to ensure compliance with emissions regulations i.e. particularly in closed loop mode (this is no surprise and closed loop is a mode that in my experience many people don't understand).
3. Irrelevant given 2.

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I used the terminology HT use. Invisible.



Yes modern FI bikes oscillate between rich and lean when operating in closed loop mode. But it's a big leap from that situation to the situation at HT where they have been refusing to run a pre "tune" dyno on the basis that bikes were dangerously lean, decided by looking at AFR readings taken post cat.

https://youtu.be/l7giZGJBSbk

Think about the motivation behind avoiding to perform a pre "tune" run. It's not irrelevant especially given the incredible gains they were demonstrating in the past, which were very attractive to potential customers. I remember seeing a post here or on the old forum where people said they weren't going to bother until they saw someone else's gains.

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Yup me too, there's nothing to gain by discussing it, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours. Glad you're happy with your purchase.

I didn't know that you'd had a Hilltop tune and been disappointed with the results. Ah well.

Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #18

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I didn't know that you'd had a Hilltop tune and been disappointed with the results. Ah well.

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Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #19

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #18

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I didn't know that you'd had a Hilltop tune and been disappointed with the results. Ah well.

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I haven't.

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Zitat von Tony101 im Beitrag #20

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Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #19

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #18

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I didn't know that you'd had a Hilltop tune and been disappointed with the results. Ah well.

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I haven't.

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I also assumed that you had a dog in this fight, or are you just weighing up the options?.

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Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #21

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Zitat von Tony101 im Beitrag #20

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Zitat von Bunter im Beitrag #19

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #18

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I didn't know that you'd had a Hilltop tune and been disappointed with the results. Ah well.

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I haven't.

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I also assumed that you had a dog in this fight, or are you just weighing up the options?.

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I guess I am weighing up tuning options which, until recently, were very limited for BMWs compared to other brands. My bike has no snatchiness so for me it would purely be to optimise fueling for better midrange. As others have noted the closed loop mode oscillates between lean and rich and to me it feels that sometimes you hit the throttle to accelerate hard and it goes well and other times it goes less well. My speculation is that it depends where in the oscillation the bike is when you demand power as to the result you get. I'd like to improve that.

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Hilltop claim to remove the closed loop mode completely and utilise the redundant O2 sensors as temperature sensors (which is, I suspect how they measure O2 anyway) to self adjust fuelling. I thought given your objections about the Hinkley crew you had personal experience.

I asked Hilltop about the closed loop mode over the phone before I booked. They made the above claim then and it made my mind up instantly. It was like my prayers had been answered. I'd say that the closed loop mode is certainly lessened in its effect, or perhaps completely gone. I've had bikes that suffered badly and the RS doesn't. There's certainly no delay in throttle response given that it's a strong mid range engine and that's both where I use it and where the closed loop mode would sit.

Anyone who tunes to alter the fuelling look up tables will improve the situation in open loop mode but if closed loop mode remains then the problem will remain. A piggy back device like a Power Commander can alleviate the situation by adding fuel in closed loop mode I guess.

My thought is that if your bike is running OK and does not have an issue that is driving you nuts, then the best course of action is to just leave things be. In my experience, messing with stuff that works well rarely turns out the way you had hoped.

Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #24

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My thought is that if your bike is running OK and does not have an issue that is driving you nuts, then the best course of action is to just leave things be. In my experience, messing with stuff that works well rarely turns out the way you had hoped.

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Zitat von Sanemancured im Beitrag #26

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Zitat von Richard230 im Beitrag #24

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My thought is that if your bike is running OK and does not have an issue that is driving you nuts, then the best course of action is to just leave things be. In my experience, messing with stuff that works well rarely turns out the way you had hoped.

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That is very reasonable Richard. Closed loop mode is a buggerance only mode designed, not to save the planet but to pass a flawed emissions test. Getting rid of it can only improve our machine.....

I do love my RS, and the smallish mods I've made have all enhanced the riding experience. If they didn't, they were removed.

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I know this is an old thread but I am naturally curious. Given that there are multiple ride modes, rain,road, dynamic and dynamic pro which all change the engine characteristics, does this tuning work for all of these?

For what it’s worth I had my GS Hilltopped and couldn’t notice the difference
When I purchased the RS it immediately felt quicker then the GS - at that point I realised that it was probably a scam
I would love to get some tuning improvements to my RS but it wouldn’t be Hilltop because of the concerns

I had both of my EURO3 Guzzis re-flashed. The only way that the tuner could prevent adaptation by the closed loop portion of the fuel map was to deactivate it and compose an open loop map. His re-flash compensated for pipes and an airbox mod, but also fattened up the tuning at low revs...the very place where most environmental testing is concentrated. The result was more linear throttle response and a noticeable power gain.

My ‘16 R12RS sports a Remus slip-on with the dB killer in place. It runs very well. There is an increase in flow, but the bike seems to compensate automatically, using the exhaust valve to maintain appropriate back pressure. Unlike the Yamaha EXUP valve that operates either on or off, the BMW exhaust valve is infinitely variable. I get a small pop when changing gears with the shift-assist, but I suspect it is due to the momentary interruption of the ignition that unloads the transmission. An exhaust system that eliminates the exhaust valve or the dB-killer will result in excessive flow and the bike will run dangerously lean.